La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

[ExLLLeader]

I picked this up on a recent Facebook post and could not quite believe it so made the following complaint/query and it is true. I was a La Leche League Leader for many years and am very upset to see how the organisation has lost its focus on the Mother and baby.

Complaint To The Board of Directors/Trustees

Dear Board members,

I was alarmed to see a post yesterday on the LLLGB Facebook page. The post in celebrating Transgender awareness week. The post links to the this page which states

LLLGB supports everyone who wants to breastfeed or chestfeed in reaching their goals. We do not discriminate based on sex, gender or gender identity.

And
Trans men, trans women and non-binary individuals may choose to breastfeed or chestfeed their babies.

And
Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.

I have two issues I wish to complain about and they relate to the idea that males/Transwomen can breastfeed.

LLLGB should not be promoting the idea that males can induce lactation to feed a baby. There is no evidence to say this is safe, only an anecdotal example of a case where a doctor in the US enabled this to happen using off label drugs. The focus of the paper is mainly on the desires of the male bodied person and there is little interest in the impact on the baby and indeed the mother. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779241/ . I would hope you have also considered the fetishisation of breastfeeding which does not only apply to men watching women, males lactating is also a paraphilia.

Why would LLLGB of all organisations choose not to discriminate on the basis of sex as it is perfectly entitled to under the equalities act? By saying these two statements there is nothing to stop a male wishing to come to women only meetings. Even I presume, before the baby is born. Im not sure if you would require that the male considered themselves to be a woman by performing gender stereotypes or not. (The male in the study had no surgery so still had a functioning penis.) Does this entitle a male who has breastfed to apply for Leadership?

Yours Sincerely
(ExLLLeader)

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Dear (ExLLLeader)
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history. As lay breastfeeding counsellors, LLL Leaders role is to provide up to date and accurate information which individuals can use to inform their discussion with their healthcare provider.
Our groups have discretion to consider the needs of their communities when they decide who can attend. Some will by default be women only, however our support is and must always be open to anyone who needs support and information to breastfeed (which some individuals call chestfeeding). This would mean that a group would need to find a way to balance the needs of members who needed a single sex space, with the needs of an individual who needed chestfeeding support.
Eligibility for La Leche League Leadership is set by LLL International and can be found here: www.llli.org/get-involved/prerequisites/
As an organisation with a robust safeguarding culture, if we had concerns about an individual's motivation for seeking breastfeeding support we would take appropriate action to protect families and babies.
Best wishes (LLL Trustee)
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Dear (LLL Trustee)
Thank you for your reply, I have copied my complaint below as I was raising concerns about the male sex – i.e. Transwomen and breastfeeding and you have answered as if my concern is about female sexed i.e. trans men.

Best wishes (ExLLLeader)
_
Dear (ExLLLeader)
My apologies - I used the wrong word there. I should have said the protocol used by transwomen wishing to induce lactation is very similar to that used by women. The rest of my reply is intended to answer your points as raised.
(LLL Trustee)
___
Dear (LLL Trustee)
I am surprised to hear this. Would you therefor support a ‘Cis” man to breastfeed and provide the nutrients for a newborn baby?
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Not had an answer

pandering to men

👆🏼

Ok so, from all I have read here and elsewhere...

1. Men can produce a fluid. I wouldn't call it pus as it's not from an infection but whether it carries the anti-psychotic drugs with it and what nutritional content is has is questionable at best, dangerous at worst.

1. Men who spontaneously start to 'lactate' should consider this a sign of something and get checked out. Men who suddenly become widows and fathers to new born babies are going to reach for the formula rather than call a wet nurse (as they don't exist anymore in mainstream society) or on a whim attempt to breast feed themselves. Maybe they will call the local hospital for breast milk supplies which would be supplied by...women.

1. In the case of trans women wanting to 'breastfeed', the technique involved preparatory drugs and months leading up to the birth so in order to do this and even when they do they do not generate 'milk' that is in the volume as a woman. It is a planned action, premeditated some might say. In articles shared men take the fresh from the womb baby away from the mother to 'feed'. Just born babies do not need to feed straight away necessarily and I think it's clear who is the priority in these stories.

1. Women who have their babies away from them too much in the early days can struggle to breastfeed as needed for their own individual child, that goes for having lots of cuddles with family members and their husbands or parents who want to 'breastfeed' the baby themsleves.

1. Children should not be around adults with sexual fetishes as exposing a child to a sexual act is against U.K. law. This includes non-contact.

1. The LLL are not calling this chestfeeding. They are calling it breastfeeding and are therefore not including trans men. Trans men who have breast and newborn babies who are willing and able to breastfeed should crack in as that is what is best for the baby. How likely would a trans man with their own newborn baby he to hand over to a man in their life or a woman in their life to breastfeed the child? I don't know. I don't see this being about this group of people.

1. LLL have broken their mission statement and their reason for existing as a charity. A small group of people want to make this mainstream and socially acceptable, just your regular breastfeeding mother in a cafe feeding her child. To have rejected men (regardless of gender identity) would have been perfectly acceptable given their MO but to have forced men elsewhere would have made it niche and different and not part of an established and mainstream brand.

None of this is for the benefit of the mother and it certainly isn't for the benefit of the child. One story shared show both parents giving up on breastfeeding at 6 weeks old.

That is most definitely not what breastfeeding charities advise, the aim is to get to 6 months for gut health and for longer, up to 2 years as advised by the WHO if possible.

Sorry this was a long post but for all that led to this I think it's worth remembering so we can remind the LLL what they are actually here for. You never know they might listen...

No need for antipsychotic drugs Holy and it's milk but the hormone levels are the worry from my point of view.

Just the hormone levels?

Nothing else that worries you about a male taking medication to facilitate a process which will remove the baby from its mother for long periods of time and potentially damage both the baby and the mother?

A male does not need to shrink back their uterus, nor do they have the extended maternity leave time to establish breastfeeding so after 2 weeks that male may well he back at work and the mother unable to feed their baby properly as the demand was interrupted very early on.

What does the male get out of this?

Supporting transwomen to breastfeed brings zero benefit to anyone other than transwomen.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Just the hormone levels?

Nothing else that worries you about a male taking medication to facilitate a process which will remove the baby from its mother for long periods of time and potentially damage both the baby and the mother?

A male does not need to shrink back their uterus, nor do they have the extended maternity leave time to establish breastfeeding so after 2 weeks that male may well he back at work and the mother unable to feed their baby properly as the demand was interrupted very early on.

What does the male get out of this?

FFS I wanted to provide people with information so that their arguments would not be weakened by including false statements. I'm not an enemy here, I'm a helpful person giving you info to prevent others discounting what you say on the basis that you revealed that you don't know what you're talking about by saying things that are not true! No need to argue.

I wonder if the NSPCC, might be willing to take someone to court here, for malnutrition of a newborn.

On a thread about how sex based rights do not exist (and should not, according to thread starter)
TRAs are MRAs

I doubt it. They are a bit odd at the moment.

But you seem to be avoiding answering the questiom about what exactly it is that makes you uncomfortable..

Its all very well trying to act as if you are doing us a favour by pointing out facts but those facts don't even really matter what matters is the mutually beneficial relationship/health reasons/evolutionary instincts between infant and breastfeeding mother. None of which are applicable to any male who breast feeds, and may well be damaging to the mother and the baby.

So who is it you think benefits from this and how/why?

In this article Goanna there are instances of men breastfeeding but also these drugs are mentioned.

"There are also some drugs that occasionally have the side effect of increased prolactin concentration in the body sufficient to cause male lactation, such as the antipsychotic chlorpromazine (marketed under the name Thorazine and Largactil) and the heart medication digoxin (marketed under the name Lanoxin, among other names)."

https://qrius.com/can-men-lactate-and-breastfeed-babies-naturally/

The drugs named are interesting to google, should you fancy looking them up.

It also mentions teenage boys producing fluid due to a hormone imbalance and hypothyroidism, that's why I mentioned why it can be a symptom of something and should be checked.

There are a number of natural reasons a man might start leaking fluid from his nipples (and also a number of drugs prescribed to induce 'lactation' in men) None of them are pregnancy.

@HecatesCats

Supporting transwomen to breastfeed brings zero benefit to anyone other than transwomen.

Supporting transwomen to breastfeed when the mother wants to breastfeed is actively detrimental to the mother’s health and her ability to successfully breastfeed.

Supporting a transwoman to breastfeed when the mother does not want to breastfeed would need to carefully looked at in relation to their charitable status. I see nothing on their website about any known drug contraindications for transwomen who want to breastfeed.

A blog piece the majority of us would broadly agree with I imagine.

"One of the key principles of breastfeeding support is that “Breastfeeding is for the baby, not the baby for breastfeeding.” This means that in situations where someone who is not a baby’s birth mother wants to breast or bottle feed that baby, it is legitimate and necessary to ask why, as well as what the costs and benefits may be for both mother and baby."

https://fullcreamweb.blog/2018/06/28/when-breastfeeding-is-for-everyone-except-the-baby/?fbclid=IwAR3SPyF2pCs0Cu9tSGG_27LEYwkaq00UaJuN9eObNawmjmGIjSJDLGdreMg

Supporting a transwoman to breastfeed when the mother does not want to breastfeed would need to carefully looked at in relation to their charitable status. I see nothing on their website about any known drug contraindications for transwomen who want to breastfeed.

I'd argue that motivation and safeguarding are equally important to the quality of any 'milk' produced. It's highly unlikely that given the volume of whatever liquid is produced would be sufficient to sustain the health of baby therefore donated milk from mothers with an excess of supply or formula would be a better option. The only reason this would be in play would be to validate the transwoman and the f word we're not allowed to mention.

This thread is thoroughly depressing. My only hope is that no woman who births a baby would allow it to be breastfed by a trans woman. Are we going to be expected to share maternity leave soon, get sent back to work after a month or two so a trans woman can have a go? If a mother is unable to breastfeed, supporting that mother to formula feed would be far, far superior to supporting a man to breastfeed. That mother baby relationship is so very important. It feels like an attempt to remove women from the equation of child rearing, on what planet is it OK to put the desires of an adult above the needs of a baby?

register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/283771/governing-document

Charitable objects

TO PROMOTE THE PHYSICAL AND PSYCOLOGICAL HEALTH OF MOTHERS AND CHILDREN THROUGH EDUCATION IN THE TECHNIQUE OF BREASTFEEDING, AND TO ADVANCE THE EDUCATION OF THE PUBLIC AND ESPECIALLY THOSE CONCERNED WITH THE CARE OF CHILDREN IN THE HEALTH BENEFITS BOTH IMMEDIATE AND LONG-TERM OF BREASTFEEDING.

I’d argue that supporting the complex and time heavy process of inducing lactation in a transwoman is not promoting the physical and psychological health of mothers and children through the education of techniques in breastfeeding.

on what planet is it OK to put the desires of an adult above the needs of a baby?

I'd like to be able to say this planet, but I'm increasingly disturbed by the lengths people are prepared to go to to enable adults to live out their fantasies. LLL should not be including breastfeeding support for transwomen in their provision, it has nothing to do with their mission, indeed it's at odds with it.

Sorry that should read 'not' this planet

Thanks Base lots to consider and challenge there - will be writing to them next week.

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread and sharing the replies from LLL.

Time to get writing!

Also - follow the money. They got government grants. I wonder what the conditions are.

"One of the key principles of breastfeeding support is that “Breastfeeding is for the baby, not the baby for breastfeeding.” This means that in situations where someone who is not a baby’s birth mother wants to breast or bottle feed that baby, it is legitimate and necessary to ask why, as well as what the costs and benefits may be for both mother and baby."

This. Excellent article. Its all so nice and open minded, but the harm creeps in its wake to mothers and to babies. As the article says: so many people participating in the oppression of women, or indeed their own oppression, one virtue signal at a time.

Grumpy, the men you are talking to are fantasists, I think. If your telephone support is getting more than the occasional call, it is a group of fantasists letting each other know they have found a source of talking about it with a nice kind group of women who believe them.

I can’t be 100 per cent sure of this, of course.

But I’ve been round the block with helplines inc bf helplines.

If there was any father in the UK trying to bring in a milk supply with hormones, we’d know about it on a blog or a forum or Twitter.

Talk about this with your supervisor or whoever supports you as a supporter and learn how to tell them to go elsewhere for their kicks.

I’ve reported my last post because of inadvertent misgendering. Sorry about that.

It’s the one that starts with a call out to @HecatesCats.