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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Gay men's magazine bullied into grovelling

896 replies

aliasundercover · 26/11/2020 20:37

twitter.com/BoyzMagazine/status/1332052779871965186

Looks like they're gunning for gay men now. Anything other than complete agreement is no good.

Readers here will be used to this sort of insanity:
twitter.com/robholley/status/1332054419337334789
I wonder if it will wake up those who have not seen it before?

OP posts:
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Datun · 27/11/2020 20:45

😮

SophocIestheFox · 27/11/2020 20:49

I didn’t get mine answered either and I asked twice.

Hmph.

Anyway, back to the topic, is this still blowing up on Twitter? Have any other publications weighed in?

Sunscreeneveryday · 27/11/2020 20:55

Yes, I like a bit of slash myself but I've always seen it as a reflection of female sexuality rather than male. It seems to be the anime stuff that's turned people's heads.

Same. It is absolutley an insight on female sexuality, it has very little relation to the reality of a relationship between gay men. It is a way of safely exploring sexuality and relationships. It can also be a fetish, albeit largely a harmless one, as it doesn't involve exploiting real people to produce it and slash has been around for decades and decades without causing any damage.

I think the ease with which creators/actors can be interacted with is encouraging a very unhealthy atmosphere nowadays. There used to be an acknowledged dividing line between fandom and the actual shows. That line is increasingly blurred, I think someone could write a lengthy analysis on the Sherlock fandom and how the creators deliberately teased the slash fans on the Sherlock/John relationship, which fuelled a large backlash when it wasn't then reflected in the show. See also Supernatural. These teen girls/early 20s genuinely believed their interpretation of the relationships between these men was going to be come "canon" in the show. When this didn't happen it was if they had been betrayed by false promises, so it's labelled as "queerbaiting" and the creators or actors in question need to be vilified. It's not healthy.

Defaultname · 27/11/2020 21:22

@CaraDuneRedux

Ha ha.

Bet their be-penised readers still aren't interested in gentlemen with vulvas, though.

Reminds me of the definition of a discret butler; someone who can walk into a room where a woman's having a shower, and say "My apologies, sir."
HPFA · 27/11/2020 21:26

@Sunscreeneveryday

Yes, I like a bit of slash myself but I've always seen it as a reflection of female sexuality rather than male. It seems to be the anime stuff that's turned people's heads.

Same. It is absolutley an insight on female sexuality, it has very little relation to the reality of a relationship between gay men. It is a way of safely exploring sexuality and relationships. It can also be a fetish, albeit largely a harmless one, as it doesn't involve exploiting real people to produce it and slash has been around for decades and decades without causing any damage.

I think the ease with which creators/actors can be interacted with is encouraging a very unhealthy atmosphere nowadays. There used to be an acknowledged dividing line between fandom and the actual shows. That line is increasingly blurred, I think someone could write a lengthy analysis on the Sherlock fandom and how the creators deliberately teased the slash fans on the Sherlock/John relationship, which fuelled a large backlash when it wasn't then reflected in the show. See also Supernatural. These teen girls/early 20s genuinely believed their interpretation of the relationships between these men was going to be come "canon" in the show. When this didn't happen it was if they had been betrayed by false promises, so it's labelled as "queerbaiting" and the creators or actors in question need to be vilified. It's not healthy.

Oh, we could derail the whole thread onto a discussion about slash shipping! I always thought Sherlock was more about a shared joke with the audience than about teasing the fandom (other shows have been worse about doing this - I'm looking at you, Merlin!) but I can see how fans could get caught up in it all.

But the whole "girls wanting to be gay men" thing just shows the terrible irresponsibility of some of this. We know that gender dysphoria is absolutely a real, documented, condition but there's no way on God's earth that the sudden emergence of a sizable number of girls deciding they're gay men is anything other than a social phenomenon - no other explanation makes any sort of sense. And yet adults are willing to blind themselves to it out of some fear of being "uncool".

I'm sure there are lots of older transpeople who feel absolutely the same way but they're pretty much as powerless as we are.

BaronessWrongCrowd · 27/11/2020 21:27

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Sunscreeneveryday · 27/11/2020 21:33

Oh, we could derail the whole thread onto a discussion about slash shipping!

It would probably be a bit more fun. Grin You're right, this isn't the thread for it, I think I forgot the original topic while replying. It's been a long week.

Duckwit · 27/11/2020 22:01

- They advocate for conversion therapy,

They think that children who think they need to take untested drugs, have healthy body parts cut off and render themselves infertile before they have reached their twenties might need counselling before going down that route.

But nice bit of propaganda there though 👍

christinarossetti19 · 27/11/2020 22:13

"They advocate for conversion therapy"

No, the LGB Alliance don't. They advocate for exactly the opposite.

"The LGB Alliance are homophobic"

No, they're not. They're a group of people advocating for the rights of homosexual people.

Winesalot · 27/11/2020 22:22

and against LGBT education in schools.

They support balanced, vetted and approved LGBT education in schools. Please show us the education they don’t support. I think you will find the materials they don’t support are those that have been created by organisations that do not have experience in creating children’s educational tools that are sensitive to children’s needs, are following safeguarding protocols and are presenting complete facts. In particular the proud trust dice game, or children being told they might be ‘in the wrong body’, or some of the material discussing anal sex that completely misses the fact that many many females don’t find it actually is pleasurable (but don’t let that material fact stop you girls from doing this cool sex act even though it might cause you immeasurable pain and internal damage!).

You mean those resources MBD? These seem to be the resources I have seen them highlight should not in schools. I take it you are ok with them, then?

Do you have any evidence to show which education resources they object to otherwise or is this another ‘they are funded by Heritage’ fake evidence claim?

yourhairiswinterfire · 27/11/2020 22:27

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Datun · 27/11/2020 22:30

Excellent thread. Most informative.

OvaHere · 27/11/2020 22:30

Same. It is absolutley an insight on female sexuality, it has very little relation to the reality of a relationship between gay men. It is a way of safely exploring sexuality and relationships. It can also be a fetish, albeit largely a harmless one, as it doesn't involve exploiting real people to produce it and slash has been around for decades and decades without causing any damage.

I disagree slightly that it doesn't have consequences. I used to think that but a couple of years ago I read a long discussion by gay men about fiction and the publishing industry.

It was pointed out that it can be a struggle for gay male authors, particularly those writing erotica, to be published and find an audience because the genre is dominated by women. Many whom write under male or gender neutral pseudonyms.

A lot of the men were frustrated they had unwittingly bought some of these books when looking not just to support gay authors but also because they wanted fiction that was men writing men. They would get into the book, get a sense that something was 'off' in the depiction of m/m relationships, do a bit of research and discover it was indeed female slash fiction.

It's a bit of a thorny issue because I don't really like the idea that authors, male or female, can't write about what they want to - we've seen this attitude go down quite a censorious path recently with the YA fiction world. I also wouldn't want authors to be obliged to use their real names on books or be prevented from using initials or unisex names etc...

The best course of action would be for more investment made in gay authors within the genre but with women being by far the bigger market for it I suspect publishers go where the money is. Women that buy it largely don't want realistic gay fiction they want the slash stuff where a lot of 'safe' reader self insertion can happen.

It's not exactly on a level with fake lesbian porn produced for the male gaze but the discussion points stayed with me because it's an angle I hadn't previously considered.

Datun · 27/11/2020 22:52

So, tell me – who are the real bigots in the mad crusade against LGB Alliance? The alliance itself, for merely talking about the reality of sex and same-sex attraction? Or the furious, insult-spewing mobs who are doing everything they can to shame and shut it down? I think we know the answer.

We're going backwards. At a startling rate.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 27/11/2020 22:57

So if i google lgb org then looking for conversion therapy etc im gonna be disappointed yeah?

Cos it really pisses me off when i read the manifestos of parties like this and dont find what I’m told ill find...those manifestos are fucking long

Or do i just look on twitter

I didn’t know that twitter is that educational but i dont generally look unless there is a link so maybe it is the encyclopedia Britannica of my youth

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 27/11/2020 23:00

Plus im not good at googling

I googled saggy titted idol following a joke on the board and im telling you right now DO NOT GOOGLE THAT!

ArabellaScott · 27/11/2020 23:08

Rufus, ffs, don't you know instructions not to google something are like catnip. Going to have to sit on my hands.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 27/11/2020 23:11

Mate... 😀

Dont do it

It didn’t end quite as badly as when my friends daughter googled pretty pussy but it was very close

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 27/11/2020 23:30

I might have lowered the tone

MadBadDaddy · 28/11/2020 00:23

@Datun

So, tell me – who are the real bigots in the mad crusade against LGB Alliance? The alliance itself, for merely talking about the reality of sex and same-sex attraction? Or the furious, insult-spewing mobs who are doing everything they can to shame and shut it down? I think we know the answer.

We're going backwards. At a startling rate.

Here's the LGBA challenge:

Go to the LGBA twitter feed, and ignore any posts about transgender issues or about themselves and see what you are left with.

They post hardly anything else. They are obsessed with transgender people.

Love the directive spin on 'merely talking' versus 'furious, insult-spewing' BTW. It's almost as if you read none of the actual objections.

Datun · 28/11/2020 00:31

Still can't answer that question MBD?

The hatred for this group is intense. The efforts to cancel LGB Alliance – by branding it a ‘hate group’, depriving it of opportunities to raise money, and robbing it of the oxygen of publicity – are out of control.

MadBadDaddy · 28/11/2020 00:37

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer
I know you like popping up with your wry comments but if you're uniformed or have never met anyone who has undergone involuntary conversion or aversion therapy (as I have) I seriously advise you to either not bother or at least moderate your raffish tone. It is literal torture and seems to be a lot of ignorant pundits' 'solution' to children presenting with Gender Dysphoria.

MadBadDaddy · 28/11/2020 00:39

@Datun
Start another topic if you want

Quaagars · 28/11/2020 00:41

Love the directive spin on 'merely talking' versus 'furious, insult-spewing' BTW

The emotive language spins on here to force a narrative or take always interests me too, done a lot on here by the same people
Depending on what is being referred to it's "merely talking" or "angry spewing" or "rage filled" etc even when you (general you) are just expressing a different view, you're apparently angry Confused

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