Woke staff revolt over Jordan Peterson book

[Apollo440]

thepostmillennial.com/publishers-woke-staff-revolt-over-jordan-petersons-new-book

Isn't he regarded as transphobic for refusing to use compelled speech and warning of the consequences (and proven right by Yaniv). Seems like the woke at Random House publishing are appalled that their business is based on making a profit. Peterson may not be your glass of tea but he's hardly Goebals.

And if you think his writing is dangerous then you talk about it? In the old style. Debate etc.

Not get it not published.

Because then stuff goes underground...

It is a difficult line. There is one somewhere. But wherever it is, he's not near it so irrelevant.

I don’t know Gerbil. It can be very difficult to know how things can snowball or turn down directions you aren’t expecting. I mean, I’m not sure I would have ever described Judith Butler’s writing as dangerous but people now feel threatened by the social movements that were influenced by it.

I don’t feel Peterson is dangerous. I would hope that people read more widely than just his books, but his ideas are too broad for anyone to really become radicalised by them.

Doesn't Peterson eat only steak and salt? I hear he's been ill recently, can't imagine why

That gets trotted out by critics trying to make him sound a bit loopy but if this is to be believed there was a reason.

In 2016, Peterson had a severe autoimmune reaction to food and was prescribedclonazepam.In late 2016, he went on a strict diet consisting only of meat and some vegetables, in an attempt to control his severe depressionand the effects of an autoimmune disorder including psoriasis and uveitis.In mid-2018, he stopped eating vegetables, and continued eating only beef

The full Wiki entry is impressive even if for no other reason than the amount of work he does.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson?wprov=sfla1

Crying to get your own way is something seven-year-olds do.

But I completely understand that people really believe that there is 'harm' being done to trans people through JP's work - the propaganda campaign of TRAs is very powerful. In this narrative, there's a big concerted campaign to literally murder trans people, propped up with misrepresented statistics from South America, with people like JKR supporting this and 'really' wanting this, and signaling this not through what they actually state but via coded 'dogwhistles'.

TRAs gaslight GC women but they also gaslight trans or possibly-trans people to an incredible extent. Thinking about Mermaids in particular - telling kids that there's loads of people who want them dead, who won't understand them, who they can't trust (including/especially their parents). That only those within the community will understand them.

People genuinely feel they're doing the right thing by defending this allegedly most-vulnerable-ever group, and by extending a protectiveness that other adults don't get or expect.

I think JP is a bit of a dick. But what he actually says vs how the wokesters represent him - there's a chasm in the difference.

Even if all those things TRAs and so on said were true it still wouldn’t explain the level of upset.

Woke people aren’t that upset by contemporary slavery, the Chinese government’s treatment of Muslims or child brides. So there’s still something quite perplexing going on in the response.

I’m confused by the Butler references. That’s massively overstating the power of academic work, surely? Butler’s theories or critique of gender (still not made time to read it so I don’t really know) didn’t invent male self-entitlement to sexual rights over women and children, cancel culture, sexual fetishisation being played out in women’s spaces, women’s (and lesbian’s) spaces and opportunities and sports being taken over by men, women’s freedom of speech bei my threatened, medical experimentation on children and emotionally vulnerable adults, ostracism of detransitioned people, institutional/regulatory capture and all the rest of it?

Misogyny and homophobia and lesbophobia have never needed support from anyone to reach the conclusions they currently have, because these ways of thinking have always been with us.

And if one academic (or a whole school of academics) popularises particular ways of thinking or a theoretical language for something, that doesn’t mean that they have actually created the phenomenon they describes, or which they argue we should all follow. A vanishingly minuscule fraction of people in the population have ever read gender theory books or ever will.

There’s obviously some academics publishing great stuff every day and some academics publishing complete sexist nonsense that would be a disaster if it was turned into social policy.. but if individual authors had such power we’d hear a lot more about all of them wouldn’t we?

We need more ideas to be discussed and published so we can all think freely about what the impact on people’s lives will be from those ideas. Rather than play it out on Twitter under threat of harassment for wrongthink or have the discussion only confined to academic writing.

On this

'But I completely understand that people really believe that there is 'harm' being done to trans people through JP's work - the propaganda campaign of TRAs is very powerful'

Just remembered something.

Checking my DD watsapp as you do. She was 12. Message from friend saying on X date there is going to be a thing where trans kids will get murdered. People have been working out which kids are trans and will kill them.

And they were saying it's so scary etc.

I think maybe what is being propagated amongst children is maybe underestimated.

@NiceGerbil that is terrifying.

There is no concerted campaign to murder trans kids. The murder rates for trans individuals not involved in prostituition in certain countries are low, often lower than for women.

Lying to kids about how the world is against them feels like - that word we're not allowed say.

Well I don't know where the message originated etc but yeah. I had a chat with DD obviously and said. Erm you know that on X day there's no one going out and killing children right? And she said. Yeah.

But fact is it was circulating and if you're feeling low or there's lots of messages etc then it's going to have an impact.

I mean that was a one off I don't check her phone all the time but she went through a funny stage during first lockdown and well not for this thread :) the chat with her mates was a bit of a shocker tbh. Anyway. Yes. People out to murder 12 yo schoolgirls because they somehow know they're questioning about gender on X day.

Jordan Peterson believes that women (or the feminine) cause chaos and men order and that men are in charge because they're better at being in charge. And his position on enforced monogamy is disgusting.

www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life.html

It's a little ironic to see him celebrated on the feminism board. I get that you agree with him on trans rights, but I'm baffled by the general embrace.

Because it’s censorship and it’s a dangerous precedent.

@Nancydrawn

Jordan Peterson believes that women (or the feminine) cause chaos and men order and that men are in charge because they're better at being in charge. And his position on enforced monogamy is disgusting.

www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life.html

It's a little ironic to see him celebrated on the feminism board. I get that you agree with him on trans rights, but I'm baffled by the general embrace.

You’re right and I also find his views on women abhorrent (even more so after reading that article) but I don’t think he should be censored. If never leads to anything good.

I do not agree with alot of what he says. But he's quite good at what he does. I mean he's asked a question and he can answer it and explain where that answer came from why.

Surely thats all these staff have to do if asked? Cite what they feel is problematic, back up with examples/reasons and be abke to explain why.

Its simple. I mean if you have listened and read all sides regardless of who wrote the book becuase if we waited for books to be written by those with appropriate thoughts and back grounds and we agreed with everything, wednhe waiting a bloody long time.

Surely if you can do that, there's no reason to ban any book?

The Coinbase stance was good too. More companies need to stand up to their toddler employees (looking at you, The Guardian).

www.google.com/amp/s/in.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN26L3N4

The Coinbase stance was good too. More companies need to stand up to their toddler employees (looking at you, The Guardian)

I mean again it seeks to be a right only of the privileged doesn't it. I mean if you were working two jobs just to get by you'd not be crying in the corner or kicking off at your boss.

You get on with your job or get fired.

@Stripesnomore

Also, when I bought my copy of 12 Rules in Waterstones, the man at the cash register handed it to me like it was a dead rat. It was around then it dawned on me that society was becoming polarised!

Lol! So funny how such people don't realise how silly and petulant they make themselves look. Rude, too.

The coinbase article was interesting. One of the questions asked about it made me laugh though " does that mean the company is just about profit?" Did some people mistake a cryptocurrency generator for Oxfam?

Doesn't Peterson eat only steak and salt? I hear he's been ill recently, can't imagine why

That gets trotted out by critics trying to make him sound a bit loopy but if this is to be believed there was a reason.

Interestingly (to me, as someone with various autoimmune conditions) it was originally his daughter who reduced her diet to this and doing so put her extremely severe idiopathic arthritis into total remission. She'd been essentially crippled since childhood and had hip, knee and ankle replacements by her early 20s. So it was an increasingly desperate attempt to try to get some relief. It's worked for her and honestly looks like a bit of a miracle.

Off-topic, I know, sorry - but I think people mock JP a lot for his diet and yet when you investigate further you can see why he would want to try it, not least to support his daughter who suffered incredibly. He is also quite clear that he doesn't recommend it to anyone else, but it's helped him and his daughter a lot. As someone who has struggled with various autoimmune conditions, I am tempted to try the carnivore diet myself, to see if I can get some relief from symptoms. I don't think the aim is to do it forever, but as an extreme elimination diet from which you would add back foods that didn't trigger any symptoms or reactions. You'd hope that eventually you'd have a reasonable diet with some vegetables in it (although there are some people who basically just stick to meat and salt forever.)

BitOfFun, thanks for posting that Problematic video - I was in stitches! The lyrics are so clever. I don’t normally like rap, but that brilliant song is an exception. It’s quite long, but well worth waiting for him to get to the transgender bit. Hysterical.

I'm not going to rush to buy his book because I think he's a fairly hopeless writer - very longwinded and repetitive and in need of a good editor.
But he is an excellent speaker with some very interesting ideas and I respect him as such.
The idea that some nitwits have, that they can shut him down because they don't like him, is utterly absurd. Luckily, like JK Rowling, he is bombproof because he's such a money maker.
On another note, now that Social Media is such a presence in our lives, published books aren't the only way that we can get information. So, even if his book wasn't published, he would still be a visible presence.

Yeah literally no one is “celebrating” Peterson on this thread, what everyone is saying is whether you agree with him or not, there is no reason not to publish his book. The way to deal with him is to argue back, not cry like a toddler & wang on about your hurty feels

’It's a little ironic to see him celebrated on the feminism board. I get that you agree with him on trans rights, but I'm baffled by the general embrace.’

I think he’s an odious little man and I disagree with him on most things. I wouldn’t ‘celebrate’ him for his views on trans rights. I’m not blinded by a single issue, however important that issue is.

I’m truly amazed at grown adults believing that they have the right to dictate what their employer publishes because it upsets them. Bret Easton Ellis is published. Donald Trump is published. If Jordan Peterson said TWAW but retained his general views on women the protests about publishing his book would melt away but he’d still be an odious little man.

I don't think it's an embrace, as such.
Just trying to sort the wheat from the chaff of his work.
That is healthy, I think.

Maybe I should get a job in publishing!

I don’t recall there being anything about transgenderism in 12 Rules and doubt there will be in the next book, so don’t think his views on trans rights really comes into it when people on here are judging his books. Not everything on here has to be about transgenderism.