Irish women will be heard (trending)

[GrainneMhaol]

Hi everyone. #WeWillBeHeard is trending on twitter in Ireland. It is in reponse to Amnesty International, the National Women's Council of Ireland and other major NGO's calling for people who "defend biology" or who are gender critical to be disenfranchised.

Their words: "..Let us say unequivocally that the statements of newly launched organisations that seek to defend biology or fight gender identity and expression do not represent the wider LGBTI+ community nor feminists in Ireland... We call on media, and politicians to no longer provide legitimate representation for those that share bigoted beliefs."

This is a thread with pictures and the hastag which is trending

twitter.com/TCDFFT/status/1331208440971137024?s=19

A response letter from The Countess didn't fight for this thecountessdidntfightforthis.com/we-will-be-heard/

And an archived copy of the original ridiculous letter they are replying to (usual tropes about being far right etc) archive.is/glPXl#selection-1561.0-1561.202

3timeslucky, I don't know if it is mentioned in talk guidelines but posting thefull text of an article that's behind a paywall might be the issue. Not the contents. Of course it still takes someone to report it 👀

Thanks. Maybe that was it thought I don't think it mention that. It is a pity they don't just delete whatever breaches the rules as opposed to the whole post.

Apropos to the headline of this thread, I listened to Spin radio on my way to drop DS to school this morning at 8. The newscaster read out that the partners "of people who are pregnant" will now be allowed to attend scans and hospital appointments. This was news from the HSE. I nearly crashed the car I was so annoyed. Are women being erased from pregnancy now? This is my rubicon. I honestly don't know if the text was direct from the HSE or if it was a Spin addition - anyone hear it anywhere else?

I can't find a press release from the HSE but The Journal, Irish Times, RTE and Irish Examiner all have headlines referring to the partners of pregnant women. Example below. There are references to a statement from the HSE. It might be worth asking Spin what statement they got.

www.thejournal.ie/hse-partners-of-women-attend-scan-5293148-Dec2020/

This is from journal.ie
*THE HSE WILL allow the partners of pregnant women to attend their 20-week maternity scans from this week, it has been confirmed."

And this is from RTE

" The HSE is to allow partners of pregnant women attend their 20 week pregnancy scan. They will also be allowed to attend surgical interventions.

It follows a campaign by a large number of women and their partners over the restrictions, which had been in place due to Covid-19."

The HSE website also uses the word woman (for now, presumably it will go the same way as cervical check).
So I think the" people who are pregnant "
term was spun by Spin .

Sorry, crossed posts with 3timeslucky.

Thanks guys - so bloody Spin went it alone to remove women - and they are trying to widen their demographic by having a parenting podcast weekly 🙄🙄🙄

Would never have held Spin in the highest regard tbh. That's probably come from one person.
What's the parenting podcast?

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

Would never have held Spin in the highest regard tbh. That's probably come from one person. What's the parenting podcast?

I know - A person I know was a broadcaster there in the start up days - I had a total eye roll at that!!! We used to use it to advertise to teenagers.

I listen to it with the DC, and also, sometimes to avoid the woke new on Newstalk and RTE (except Morning Ireland and Drivetime which I love). But I often end up shouting at the presenters in Spin when they don't know some simple item they are talking about (and my DC get annoyed at my intellectual snoberry - which makes me laugh when the subject matter is something like who is Barbara Broccoli).

Not sure where the best place to post this is, but Alison O'Connor highlights a number of important issues in her column in today's Examiner:

Alison O’Connor: Trans community collateral damage in social media policing (archive)

Professor Donal O'Shea's comments on transitioning are particularly worth noting.

You beat me to it Genesis. I was pleasantly surprised by the article, very comprehensive and I was really pleased to see Donal O'Shea noted. He's been oddly sidelined in the wider discussion despite (or maybe because of) his generally well regarded no nonsense approach.

That's a very well written and considered article Genesis. Thank you for posting.

Thanks for that article. I am surprised that it is in the Examiner, as I have found it to be very unbalanced on this issue, so hopefully the Keira Bell case has made them more aws of the bigger picture.
No mention of Self ID though.

*aware not aws.

@Barmbraic

You beat me to it Genesis. I was pleasantly surprised by the article, very comprehensive and I was really pleased to see Donal O'Shea noted. He's been oddly sidelined in the wider discussion despite (or maybe because of) his generally well regarded no nonsense approach.

Fair play to Alison O'Connor for writing it. It covers a lot of ground and brings things to light that many would rather keep hidden and unacknowledged.

Prof. O'Shea's comments were very interesting, I heard him being interviewed on the radio perhaps a year ago, he was very careful and considered in what he said, as well as being clearly compassionate and empathetic. But I was surprised to hear him say something similar to the quote in the article, "appropriately managed, the outcome in individuals with true gender dysphoria, transitioning to their identified gender with appropriate support, is extremely positive." I didn't notice at the time, but the qualifiers there are important: individuals with true gender dysphoria, and appropriate management and support.

He is very clear in saying that "where transitioning happens without the appropriate planning and supports, can be "disastrous"," and "medical and surgical treatment of an individual with gender confusion or fluidity will be regretted." This cannot be emphasised enough, and one wonders whether, given the GRA and the lobby groups, whatever the HSE/CHI cobble together will be able to provide children and young people with appropriate, rather than just "gender affirmative," care, especially given the state of child mental health services and supports generally.

It’s very interesting that the HSE are looking into the implications of the Bell case

@XXSex

It’s very interesting that the HSE are looking into the implications of the Bell case

Yes, fingers crossed they will see the light. The Keira Bell/Mrs. A case exposed many things, including the dangers of putting children on this pathway too young, and the appalling management of GIDS at the Tavistock Clinic. Surely the Tavistock's unearned reputation as a credible authority on gender issues and the treatment of young people has to be finished.

By the way, on the subject of the open letter signed by TENI/NWCI/Amnesty and the rest, looking to smear and deny representation to anyone who disagrees with their dogmas, Gript Media have provided some good coverage. Gript are edited by John McGuirk so they probably won't have many fans here, but I thought these three pieces are worth a read:

Amnesty, NWCI call for women/LGB groups who disagree with them to be stripped of political “representation”
To trans rights activists, the truth is a mortal enemy
Latest person cancelled for wrongthink is…….. Roisin Ingle?

@Genesis1v27

By the way, on the subject of the open letter signed by TENI/NWCI/Amnesty and the rest, looking to smear and deny representation to anyone who disagrees with their dogmas, Gript Media have provided some good coverage. Gript are edited by John McGuirk so they probably won't have many fans here, but I thought these three pieces are worth a read:

Amnesty, NWCI call for women/LGB groups who disagree with them to be stripped of political “representation”
To trans rights activists, the truth is a mortal enemy
Latest person cancelled for wrongthink is…….. Roisin Ingle?

Great links - thank you

That's a great article from Alison O'Connor - delighted to see Abigail Shrier's book getting a mention. (I am watching some liberal feminists get outraged over it and not letting trans people speak for themselves - but they won't answer the question of why so many teenage girls want to transition without going into the 'stop questioning our right to exist' hyperbole. Nor will any of the activists actually bother interviewing people like Donal O'Shea.)

I read Alison's piece and while it was welcome, she is still very tolerant of stuff that frankly any of us who have been on here reading the international and even Irish experience for the past 3 years will no longer agree with "to be nice". Perhaps that's all she feels she can get away with in a newspaper?

Gript has been excellent on this, and while John McGuirk and I would not be in the same range politically on abortion, or some other items, I think many feminists are allies of some conservatives when it comes to this issue, surrogacy and prostitution - on all three of which, we have been thrown to the wolves, by the so called progressive left.

Knock me down with a feather. They're calling people 'West Brits' and 'Castle Catholics' if they recognise that women are a distinct sex class with associated rights.

It is the whole history of the State. When women were denied reproductive rights and bodily autonomy, they weren't Irish Catholic enough. When their pelvis was sawn open instead of caesarian, it was to make them good Catholics. With pain and incontinence for the rest of their lives. When it took almost thirty years longer for homosexuality to be decriminalised, than it imported notions from heathen England too.

Now they think they will deny women by another route. These gobdaws who are spluttering about west brits, castle catholics and tans are happily working with their 'new man church' buddies across borders, receiving funding from foreign sources (like Amnesty) and implementing the religion on the basis of the Yogyakarta Principles. It's far from Ireland the gender identity YP were concocted. It was also far from the electorate (bypassing the 50% of the population it will f*ck over) giving it no popular legitimacy.
Oh and better still, calling from women to be disenfranchised if they object when they get wind of all the misogynist fuckery that has and is going on.

The biggest traitors are the ones who are trying to screw over the rights and voice of half the population. They don't even have the capability or self-awareness to see they are as regressive and as atavistic as they come and were.

Women aren't going through the same sh*t again under a new belief system!!

So much for Universal human rights being, well, universal. Anything to not play the ball.

What a brilliant post Cailleach. If only you could get it in the IT or the Indo

Yes Cailleach one of our loudest TRAs works for Gender GP, run by disgraced and struck off Helen Webberley, and who have announced they will ignore the Bell ruling on prescribing puberty blockers and cross sex hormones to children. She is one of the most vociferous spouters of "anti-Tan" rhetoric despite (a) being happy to take their money and (b) not even being Irish, she's Australian!