Teenager drop-kicked for saying you need female genitals to be a woman

[youkiddingme]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8965625/London-transgender-women-drop-kicked-stamped-19-year-old.html

Supposedly being celebrated by TRAs

www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet/1330041982681571329

1) No, and I really don't think to do so would help. Victim blaming (via the principle of provocation) has long been a part of our justice system, rightly so.

This is a bollox answer. I asked whether you could show that provocation was a mitigating factor for violent disorder. It isn't as far as I can tell but please provide a reference if you reckon you're right. It's irrelevant whether you think it would help or not.

2) I agree with you.

No you don't. You said 'Victim blaming (via the principle of provocation) has long been a part of our justice system, rightly so.' Clearly you don't agree with me because this is the complete opposite of what I said.

We will have to disagree on retributive justice. Retribution is one of several aims of the sentencing process, including prevention and rehabilitation. Please don't make me pull up the authority!

Yes, go on, 'pull up the authority' on retributive justice. Explain how it makes it OK to kick the shit out of someone. Explain why you think the victim of a crime should be subjected to the sentencing process.

@thenightsky

Men exhibiting male violence. Nothing unusual to see here.

Indeed. However, will it go into statistics as violence perpetrated by males or females?...

Retributive justice happens where an offender is found guilty and punished within our legal system.

Otherwise it's just revenge in all its varied forms.

Thanks everyone.
Kicking someone in the head is in my mind a deliberate act that has an intention to kill and at the very least cause brain damage.
What the judge has now shown is that a certain group of people are allowed to get away with attempting to murder or brain damage other people.

Is this the video at the steps to a tube station, or something? Where the people concerned turn as though to leave than lunge back for some more, while the guy is on the floor wrapping his arms around his head?

If so, I cant imagine what someone would have to say to deserve that response, or to provoke it.

@AvocadoBathroom

Thanks everyone. Kicking someone in the head is in my mind a deliberate act that has an intention to kill and at the very least cause brain damage. What the judge has now shown is that a certain group of people are allowed to get away with attempting to murder or brain damage other people.

It looks that way to me too.

Very, very seriously worrying.

For goodness of sake, it's a perfectly normal sentence for an assault that didn't result in serious injury, there is no precedent being set here or any evidence of special treatment because of the all powerful trans

Not read the whole thread.

Dipped in and out.

Seems that it's ok to retaliate if you get abuse etc.

So if a girl is out with 3 mates on the tube and some bloke makes a comment. The 4 girls can kick his head in?

Because you know. The comments happen all the time. And the kicking doesn't happen. Are girls going wrong here? Not turning round in the pub, the club, the high street. And violently assaulting the bloke who gave them shit.

Well. Doesn't happen does it. Should it?

Apparently this attack was perfectly understandable...

Didn't phrase that well.

At all.

If girls and women turned around and reacted with violence to stuff that happens... It's not imaginable really.

As for this case.
I mean. People get kicked in a fair amount in n London. He was? A dick? They really went for him.
This is a male on male violence issue. Happens every day. Men fighting.

For goodness of sake, it's a perfectly normal sentence for an assault that didn't result in serious injury, there is no precedent being set here or any evidence of special treatment because of the all powerful trans

I have no idea whether the sentences were normal or not. I have no idea either, as pp said, if it’s normal to prosecute for public order rather than assault.

What I find distasteful is the judges comments that their behaviour was Ok. That because someone believes a woman is defined by biology, and states that belief in public, then it’s a 4 on 1 attack, stamping on head and kicking a person, is a reasonable reaction.

The statement that because someone fails to press charges, it must be because they know they’re in the wrong.

If what that boy said is such a horrific transphobic hate crime that he deserves a 4 on 1 beating, why wasn’t he prosecuted for it?

For goodness of sake, it's a perfectly normal sentence for an assault that didn't result in serious injury, there is no precedent being set here or any evidence of special treatment because of the all powerful trans

They could easily have killed him, and anyone knows when they kick someone in the head that it's a not unlikely outcome. Slow hand clap, jj.

If what that boy said is such a horrific transphobic hate crime that he deserves a 4 on 1 beating, why wasn’t he prosecuted for it?

Quite. I'm almost surprised he wasn't.

@jj1968

For goodness of sake, it's a perfectly normal sentence for an assault that didn't result in serious injury, there is no precedent being set here or any evidence of special treatment because of the all powerful trans

Like hell would you say that if three or four men had got a teenage transwoman down on the ground and were kicking her in the head.

Exactly.

Like hell would you say that if three or four men had got a teenage transwoman down on the ground and were kicking her in the head

Exactly.

there is no... evidence of special treatment because of the all powerful trans

Are you perhaps forgetting the remark from the judge that of course transphobic issues are particularly sensitive?

I would have thought that in the year where we have seen BLM protests and calls for change on a truly massive scale, that the racism here would be at least as “sensitive”.

But no. It was the transphobia that was singled out for special mention.

Why was that, I wonder?

That is about the right sentence in this country for trying to maim or kill someone. Which was a likely outcome had those mindless thugs not been stopped.

We seem to have lost our way. It's probably best not not to bother the police/courts with law enforcement any more. They have more important considerations.

Meanwhile people need to see that a violent, abusive man in a frock is still a violent, abusive man.

I know I'm not altogether saying anything new here, but I don't understand the charging decision. Was it politically motivated? This case would have had eye-witness evidence from the onlookers, and there was video evidence. Why only violent disorder?

The woman was convicted of "causing fear or provocation of violence" but it looks like she actually kicked that young lad too.

I would have thought that the male people's actions qualified as actual bodily harm.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

For goodness of sake, it's a perfectly normal sentence for an assault that didn't result in serious injury, there is no precedent being set here or any evidence of special treatment because of the all powerful trans

They could easily have killed him, and anyone knows when they kick someone in the head that it's a not unlikely outcome. Slow hand clap, jj.

They could not have easily killed him, anymore than someone punching someone in the face could easily kill them. It's the kind of thing you used to see every weekend if you drank in a city centre. I'm not defending what happened but the idea this was some kind of unprecedentedly lenient sentence because they were trans is not true. And I expect the reason the CPS went for violent disorder as opposed to assault is because the injuries sustained were mild and they thought they'd have a chance of a heavier sentence that way.

Still sidestepping the facts, then, jj.

They could not have easily killed him, anymore than someone punching someone in the face could easily kill them

This is ridiculous. You need to look up 'king hit' and 'coward punch'.

I personally know of a young man who died JUST this way.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

They could not have easily killed him, anymore than someone punching someone in the face could easily kill them

This is ridiculous. You need to look up 'king hit' and 'coward punch'.

I personally know of a young man who died JUST this way.

I didn't say it was impossible but it would be very unlikely. People are not routinely put in jail for punching people. There have been far more serious attacks carried out than this which have not resulted in jail sentences.

Like hell would you say that if three or four men had got a teenage transwoman down on the ground and were kicking her in the head.

I have been in exactly that situation whilst a car full of coppers sat and watched. Some people on this thread I suspect have led very sheltered lives.

I didn't expect this thread to deliver any startling insights, but unexpectedly it has.

I am beginning to see why there is such an unbridgeable gulf between FWR regs and TRAs now. We're just so much more grounded in biological reality than you, aren't we? The reality of being female, the reality of post-surgical outcomes for quality of life (surgery is never a nice day out at the seaside), considerations about the ramifications on bone-density from endocrinological interventions, and now, the reality of how delicate even life itself is. Before you consider its quality.

Men in their prime have died from one punch, because of the way their heads hit the concrete as they fell. Even if it doesn't cause death, brain damage may result. When we talk about brain damage, we don't just mean the media portrayal of visible brain injury. Currently, 15% of people who suffer a concussion (which are very easy to cause) are thought to suffer ongoing Post-Concussion Syndrome which is no joke either.

Research suggests that 50% of homeless people have had a traumatic brain injury in the past- that is how important and influential brain health is.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/02/half-of-all-homeless-people-may-have-had-traumatic-brain-injury