Page 4 | USA gymnastic trans inclusion policy

Kit19 · 2020-11-18T13:57:00+00:00

I think Ross Tucker is very much done with this bs now! I remember the days when he was much more “it’s a difficult issue/we need to be kind” but the TRA have of course destroyed that

andyoldlabour · 20/11/2020 15:27

Only a couple, Chris Mosier and a US boxer I think.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Mosier

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricio_Manuel

hesaidshesaidwhat · 20/11/2020 15:35

One thing I don't understand about all this is the involvement of the parents. I can hand on heart say that if my DS was a gymnast and decided he was trans and then wanted to complete against the girls, I would not support it at all and would tell him so. Anyone who has a child who has done sport to a high levels knows there is a significant amount of support required from parents. So it is the parents that are condoning this too, as well as I suppose the coaches etc.

334bu · 20/11/2020 17:17

Perhaps there is a certain validation for some of the parents as well. If everyone appears to accept their child's gender change then in a way they are affirming the parent's choice to affirm their child in another gender. Also , as many of these children are very unhappy , to see them engage in a sport must be very reassuring with regard to their mental health. Still very selfish behaviour and totally unacceptable.

Al77 · 20/11/2020 18:46

Some competative people will win by any means, hence doping.

Those 2 trans men are impressive though, kudos.

That said the fields are interesting. Boxing is by weight category so the pubertal advantage is cancelled out a bit and he looks like he is definately on testosterone, he's ripped! There is an arguement for size and weight categories.

The triathalon is a lower limb heavy endurance event which women are slightly less dissadvantaged, due to smaller overall lower limb strength discrepancy compared to upper limb strength discrepancy and a greater proportion of Type 1(slow twitch dark) muscle fibers and greater capillary density leading to the ability to hold off fatigue. Still disadvantage, just not by as much as in more ballistic sports.

Good article on swimming performance being slighty less gender dimorphic: www.academia.edu/7666659/Gender_differences_in_high_level_swimming_performance

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 20/11/2020 19:07

Athletics would be a wash out - the field activities like shot put, javelin, discus, long jump - women may as well but bother showing up.

PearPickingPorky · 20/11/2020 20:30

Those 2 trans men are impressive though, kudos.

That said the fields are interesting. Boxing is by weight category so the pubertal advantage is cancelled out a bit and he looks like he is definately on testosterone, he's ripped! There is an arguement for size and weight categories.

I actually don't think they are as impressive as you'd think.

A female taking testosterone will obviously pack on muscle. Men (and peri/post-pubertal boys) have denser bones than bones, so their bones are heavier. Within a very restricted weight class (if memory serves, the transmen were competing in the lowest weight categories, around 50 or 55kg?) that doesn’t allow for much muscle on a male frame. So transmen might have an advantage there because they can have a higher amount of muscle weight because their bones are lighter.

In super-low weight categories, skill and technique, rather than strength, is also more important.

ChateauMargaux · 21/11/2020 17:55

Boxing is by weight category so the pubertal advantage is cancelled out a bit... not really, muscle to fat ratios, lung capacity, body shape.. the differences between male and female bodies are complex and far reaching.

StanfordPines · 21/11/2020 18:02

@bluebluezoo

British gymnastics, and swimming, have been allowing transgender boys to compete as girls for years.

The kids I know gave up as puberty hit, so I don’t know if anyone has made the challenge at more advanced levels.

Out of interest how many trans gymnasts do you know of.

Surely the number of prepubescent children that are trans and interested in gymnastics must be quite small.

HecatesCats · 21/11/2020 18:06

StanfordPines · 21/11/2020 18:13

That’s not what I was saying.

BlueZoo said that trans gymnasts she knew mainly dropped out at puberty.
I’m wondering how many prepubescent trans people with an interest in gymnastics there are at a hobby level.

I completely understand people who have gone through male puberty will clean up on the medal table.

Mumoftwoinprimary · 21/11/2020 18:21

Hmmm - I’m tempted here. Dd (10) is a competitive trampolinist (which is under the umbrella for BG). She is good but not great if that makes sense.

Right now if she was a boy she would do better at a regional level - just because of the sheer numbers of girls at competitions at this age. (Last year 12th out of 50 odd in the region for girls, only 9 boys entered - sounds like a good way to bump her up to the top 10.)

She does a couple of other sports as well - but I think she’d still feel like a girl for them. But - technically - could I announce she is a boy for trampolining? She’d still want her very long hair and sparkly leotard but that just makes her a non conforming boy right? In fact I think she’d be a better boy for her long hair, sparkly leotard, girl’s name and the fact that she competes as a girl in other sports.

HecatesCats · 21/11/2020 18:29

@StanfordPines

That’s not what I was saying.

BlueZoo said that trans gymnasts she knew mainly dropped out at puberty.
I’m wondering how many prepubescent trans people with an interest in gymnastics there are at a hobby level.

I completely understand people who have gone through male puberty will clean up on the medal table.

Apologies, misunderstood

bluebluezoo · 21/11/2020 20:13

Right now if she was a boy she would do better at a regional level - just because of the sheer numbers of girls at competitions at this age. (Last year 12th out of 50 odd in the region for girls, only 9 boys entered - sounds like a good way to bump her up to the top 10)

As she moves up the age groups this is less of an issue. Around 10 the really talented ones move to elite, and leave the talented-but-not-superstars at the top. Gradually over the next few years the numbers will even out and the competition get closer as some move up faster than others. Once they get to 12 it’s usually so few they get lumped in an “under 16” category.

Meanwhile the boys get bigger and stronger, so unless there are only 3 in it, she won’t have much chance.

Has she tried DMT? Often done alongside trampoline and not popular so very low numbers.

As to transgender gymnasts, i’ve only known two. One personally, one on the coach grapevine.

The vast majority of girls drop out at puberty anyway. It’s not a great hobby unless you’re in it very seriously, or you’re lucky enough to find a coach/club that will develop non-elite gymnasts over 12.