Tricky: Is TERF a slur? BBC Radio 4

[HecatesCats]

^Political commentator Dominique Samuels, Relationship educator Esther De La Ford, Ph.D. student Bec Wonders and artist Ruby Streek discuss the acronym TERF (Trans-exclusionary radical feminist).

Some of our panel consider it an insult while for others it’s a factual term for transphobic behaviour. They all agree that it’s a source of division and tension amongst feminists. Is it being used to shut down those who have concerns about unintended consequences of trans-activism or a valid way of calling out intolerance?^

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p08xw9jg

My takeaway from one of the participants (can’t remember which one) is that if your feminism isn’t intersectional then you’re a TERF, a ‘white feminists’ (the great slur) and are a privileged older woman. Great.

I’m guessing Dominique was the youngest panellist. She gets an awful lot of abuse on Twitter for being a black woman who doesn’t buy into identity politics.

My takeaway from one of the participants (can’t remember which one) is that if your feminism isn’t intersectional then you’re a TERF, a ‘white feminists’ (the great slur) and are a privileged older woman.

Many people might feel a bit silly making that argument to a young black women. Say what you like about the Butlerian Jihadis, they don't lack chutzpah.

"CIS or non trans women"

Many people might feel a bit silly making that argument to a young black women. Say what you like about the Butlerian Jihadis, they don't lack chutzpah.

That's the most gloriously mixed metaphor I've seen in a long time, donquixote, and I love you for it!

Many people might feel a bit silly making that argument to a young black women. Say what you like about the Butlerian Jihadis, they don't lack chutzpah.

That made me chuckle Don

I thought Bristol rapper, Tricky had made a Zuby like intervention when I read the thread title.

This looks like a really interesting series, I'd never heard of it. Some of the other topics sound interesting too. I susiect I might find this one too annoying.

Me too Tinsel!
no time to listen right now. Do they address the fact that most GC feminists don't exclude trans men from feminism (so the term TERF is factually incorrect) and the fact that 'trans' often defaults to mean transwomen is yet another form of misogyny?

Activists: It is wrong to impose labels on others and to assume their identity

Also Activists: I'll label you and assume your identity any way I want

All I hear with that word now is 'woman who won't do what I say/supporter of women who won't do what I say', and it's a word only ever used, quite intentionally, to rhyme with 'scum'. It's one of the many 'you do what I say or else but I'll do as I want and you can't stop me' behaviours, and it contains more 'hate' in its average use than anything a woman has ever said about women's rights.

I posted before I had a chance to listen. Kids are in bed so I'm going in holding my nose and hoping to be pleasantly surprised

Apparently trans has come as a bit of a shock to older second wave feminists. (yeh, we know nothing about men). We are not really equipped to understand. (ok kids) We are supposed to help everyone, not just women with uteruses. (I wonder who told you that).

Old white privileged 2nd wavers are fear mongering about things that are (simultaneously) miniscule and also not happening.

Suffragettes were bad feminists because they were all white.....

It was 100 percent Twitter TRA soundbites.

Embarrassed for them.

But the Vancouver rape crisis woman was excellent. Feminism is for women, it is men who are doing the violence . And yes Escape I was a to hear that we did not see the trans thing and we re supposed to be kind and help everyone while ou4 rights are being removed.
Did i hear t the end there is to be another programme about pronouns??

Apparently trans has come as a bit of a shock to older second wave feminists. (yeh, we know nothing about men). We are not really equipped to understand. (ok kids) We are supposed to help everyone, not just women with uteruses. (I wonder who told you that). Old white privileged 2nd wavers are fear mongering about things that are (simultaneously) miniscule and also not happening.

Openly sexist, ageist, racist, classist..... little balls of seething, despising prejudice against others who Aren't Like Them.

I too wondered why Bristol rapper Tricky would be interested...

@TinselAngel

I thought Bristol rapper, Tricky had made a Zuby like intervention when I read the thread title.

Me too! V. disappointed.

.. it's a word only ever used, quite intentionally, to rhyme with 'scum'..

I'm a bit slow today, what rhymes with scum?

Did i hear t the end there is to be another programme about pronouns??

It's already there: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08vcyd7

It's called 'Are Pronouns Important?'

Should be called 'Pronouns are Important' because there's no questioning going on.

Will they do a programme about rohypnol too?

You know, for "balance"...

Apparently trans has come as a bit of a shock to older second wave feminists.

That is very funny, given they were the first group to raise concerns now, the group who were writing about males who identify as trans in the 70s, but they were shocked, I tell you shocked...

Good grief the ignorance is astounding. And way to go to make second wavers the villains in this drama. Passive villains with no agency at that.

Does this come from a base assumption that all women of a certain age who oppose transgender ideology and legislation must have been second wave feminists? And the ageist assumptions that women of this age cannot possibly be active in effecting social change?

Measured against the female population as a whole, there really were not that many actual second wave feminists back then. There are far fewer now.

There were of course many more women agreeing with the aims of the movement, especially the liberal feminist movement led by women like Friedan and Steinem. But today's libfems are largely cheerleaders of the ideology. However, that may be too difficult a concept to grasp if you honestly believe only the young campaign for change.

In my view, the feminist resistance to transgender ideology and legislation was mainly started by (often lesbian) radfems, including radical feminists of the second wave and they were decidedly in the minority then.

"I meant women" POW

I love this woman, and I love how she's not afraid to speak the truth.

I'm listening to the Karen episode now. Some good points being made

As a genuine second wave feminist from way back, I am disappointed by the 'feminism lite' messages flying about that seem to suggest feminism ought to be all about accommodating everyone else's needs and being calm, quiet and compliant. Looking at you UNWomen.

That's the sort of thinking we were all busily overturning in the 70s and beyond!

Good grief the ignorance is astounding

I understand the ignorance as they have been taught this piffle deliberately in the academy whilst most 2nd wavers were actually gaining ground in business and political life, all of which is taken for granted and considered not good enough as it is characterised as white by them.

What I don't understand is how pathetically submissive they sound. I suppose it's because I'm used to listening and working with successful second wave generation women in business and politics that have lost any wimpy insipid submissiveness years ago. I hope those women lose it too.

There's a real corker coming from Radio 4 tonight:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000p7b2

In her first stand-up series for Radio 4, Edinburgh Best Newcomer Nominee, Chortle Best Newcomer and Winner of the Herald Angel Award, Sarah Keyworth explores her personal journey with gender fluidity.

If you're worried about pre-judging, let me do it for you:

twitter.com/sarahkcomedy/status/1269626751468126208