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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Statue to honour Wollstonecraft

719 replies

MedusasBadHairDay · 10/11/2020 01:08

www.theguardian.com/books/2020/nov/10/mary-wollstonecraft-finally-honoured-with-statue-after-200-years

It's a naked woman..

Currently reading A Vindication of the Rights of Woman for an OU course, and - unless the tone changes dramatically in the second half of it - I'm not seeing how an idealised nude is the right statue to convey anything about her?

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HecatesCats · 12/11/2020 09:31

As if our value is to be a mother, but mothers aren't valued. If that makes sense?

Yes, I feel that. For years people asked when I was going to have a baby and then once I had them I was discriminated against.

HecatesCats · 12/11/2020 09:34

So how does this work evoke a complicated, contradictory woman who defied convention yet suffered the ordinary longing and pain of other women?
The answer is — it does not. It is that fact that bothers me as much as the nakedness of the statue.

Yes Bel Mooney. Thanks Littl

LioneIRichTea · 12/11/2020 09:35

Thank you @HecatesCats Flowers I understand what you’re saying. I guess damned if you don’t damned if you do.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 12/11/2020 09:39

Hambling's quote "She told the Evening Standard: 'She's everywoman and clothes would have restricted her. Statues in historic costume look like they belong to history because of their clothes. It's crucial that she is 'now'

Clothes maketh the man but restrictith the woman, apparently.

LioneIRichTea · 12/11/2020 09:40

Just seen your response too @ChattyLion thank you too for being kind, I expected some shitty responses. I see what you’re saying and understand.

ErrolTheDragon · 12/11/2020 09:40

[quote littlbrowndog]Another article in the mail

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8940193/A-new-statue-celebrating-Mary-Wollstonecraft-evokes-NONE-brilliance-rages-BEL-MOONEY.html[/quote]
Well, at least there's some good informative writing about MW coming out of this debacle.

twoHopes · 12/11/2020 09:55

I've reactivated my MN account just to talk about this statue. I know it's trivial in the grand scheme of things but for some reason it's really got to me. The idea of men standing around a naked, silver Barbie (with perfect tits and a big bush) "in honour of Wollstonecraft" makes me feel so sad. Every time I see a man on Twitter say "well actually I quite like it" I feel enraged. Of course you like it! I look and it and I feel objectified and dehumanised.

What makes me even sadder is the idea of little girls seeing this "statue to a feminist icon". What message will they take from this? Once again women are reduced to their bodies and their bodies are public property, for anyone's consumption.

I'm trying to find some sort of positive in all this. My hope is that maybe this can become a talking point about why this absolutely is not feminism and why we still have a long way to go. Also major kudos to the woman who knitted the vest and made the sign, that really made me smile.

lingle · 12/11/2020 09:56

"the graphic modelling of her pubic hair resembles half a cabbage"

that's made my day. I feel ready to settle down to work now.

DidoLamenting · 12/11/2020 09:57

It is often actively denigrated and discriminated against by employers or others who want women to be active economic producers all their lives so as to be active consumers in society all their lives

It's comments like that which produce negative responses to feminism. Employers don't like employees getting pregnant because it's extremely inconvenient and costs money.

Of course it has to be dealt with and will be dealt and enhanced maternity pay will be paid and jobs will be kept open until the employee eventually decides they aren't coming back at all or they will be coming back but only part-time, on days that suit them. All of which is also inconvenient but there really isn't the great , big, evil plotting you seem to imagine.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 12/11/2020 09:57

Is there a petition to get rid of the monstrosity yet?

DidoLamenting · 12/11/2020 09:58

What makes me even sadder is the idea of little girls seeing this "statue to a feminist icon". What message will they take from this? Once again women are reduced to their bodies and their bodies are public property, for anyone's consumption

You do realise that everyone responsible for this is female?

Gingernaut · 12/11/2020 09:59

Now it's a trans rights issue.

Hold on to your blood pressure.

www.dailydot.com/irl/mary-wollstonecraft-terf-statue/?fbclid=IwAR16idP-7e_Pz0d_9a4fpMqegNYALTiZFQJa9jQ2I2R-M7ozitjRwWKf8eQ

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 12/11/2020 10:01

Isn’t everything though?

IloveJKRowling · 12/11/2020 10:03

For years people asked when I was going to have a baby and then once I had them I was discriminated against

Yes, this is my experience too. I suffered infertility too Lionel for many, many years (my sympathies as I know how shit it is) and at the time I felt that I was a non-person because I couldn't do the one thing women were supposed to be able to do.

I thought once I was a mother things would improve but no. I realised how little that mothering is valued and how you are reduced to 'only' that. Just like mumsnet is derided and dismissed because it's 'only' a load of mums.

Basically, misogyny lives and women are still seen as barely human by many. Reduced either entirely to one biological function, or dismissed as the clothes and make-up we're supposed to wear. So much discomfort if we can't be neatly labelled and put in a box.

Which is why the Wollstonecraft statue is so awful. In so many spheres women are reduced to something without depth, without inner lives, without minds of their own, without complexity. And this statue kind of sums that attitude up really. How about actually reflecting the extensive writings of Wollstonecraft - their depth breath and influence? Celebrating the utterly radical, independent free thinker she was - how unique in her time? Nah, a young nude body that isn't even that female really but is somehow supposed to be 'everywoman'.

My response to that is - FUCK OFF. An insult to women everywhere but especially Wollstonecraft herself.

nauticant · 12/11/2020 10:04

This is now being discussed on Woman's Hour. I don't think they're going to be kind.

HecatesCats · 12/11/2020 10:06

[quote Gingernaut]Now it's a trans rights issue.

Hold on to your blood pressure.

www.dailydot.com/irl/mary-wollstonecraft-terf-statue/?fbclid=IwAR16idP-7e_Pz0d_9a4fpMqegNYALTiZFQJa9jQ2I2R-M7ozitjRwWKf8eQ[/quote]
The absolute irony of white men talking about 'white women's anger'. Undermining and gaslighting women for their anger and hysteria is what men have always done. You've got to give them some credit for the sheer brass neck it takes to turn women into the oppressors.

IloveJKRowling · 12/11/2020 10:09

You do realise that everyone responsible for this is female?

Why does that matter? So is Ghislaine Maxwell. Women can be awful, be sexist too, make bad decisions and be wrong.

Being a woman doesn't mean you automatically put the best interests of all women and little girls first. The assumption that it does may well have been partly where this went wrong. I am truly astounded no-one (male or female) saw the mock ups of this statue and didn't realise how offensive it was.

GlomOfNit · 12/11/2020 10:14

Lol at that dailydot article - "it offers a nude, seemingly cisgender woman"

did you ASK the statue how she/they identifies? How can one fathom the inner feels and soul of a minute aluminium Barbie doll?

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 12/11/2020 10:16

The more I read & the more pictures I see the more I think of the PP that suggested it was a sculpture MH had in the garage...

Love Julia Long

nauticant · 12/11/2020 10:16

There were a few people on Woman's Hour who were desperate not to be mean because it's by Maggi Hambling and after reaching hard the best they could do is "it's missing the point of Mary Wollstonecraft but it has got people talking about her".

YetAnotherSpartacus · 12/11/2020 10:20

Why does that matter? So is Ghislaine Maxwell. Women can be awful, be sexist too, make bad decisions and be wrong

Absolutely.

Hopefully, this thread will be spared derailment if we all agree with this instead of engaging otherwise.

laudemio · 12/11/2020 10:22

I much prefer the Martin Jennjngs statue. But I knew nothing about MW before this controversy, and now I do. So that is good?
If art is supposed spark conversations and make us reflect upon society then it has also achieved that goal.
It is just the same bloody depressing conversations!

GrumpiestCat · 12/11/2020 10:35

The mock up was actually much better. No pointy boobies abs or broccoli bush.

Newgirls · 12/11/2020 10:39

Mock up was so different wasn’t it? Did someone else make it for Hambling? Feel sorry for the committee who didn’t really get what they wanted