Just read Abigail Shrier’s Book

[Wandawomble]

What an eye opener and very reflective of what I’m seeing with my kids in their schools and their friend groups.
Fantastic read and would highly recommend to anyone concerned about this. I got it as the audio book.

I'm listening to it on Audible - I'm finding it very interesting but also quite tough to digest. As a mother of a daughter - it's frightening.

Thanks for the recommendation. I notice we seem not to be allowed to talk about groups of girls in schools identifying as trans en mass and the harm being caused to them

I notice we seem not to be allowed to talk about groups of girls in schools identifying as trans en mass and the harm being caused to them

Yes, I noticed that this morning, which is very puzzling when one would expect parental concern for their children being caught in social contagion to be well within the remit of the site

Anyway, I have been triggered to order this book now!

Parental concern of the type JK Rowling expressed regarding autistic children - being shut down is interesting indeed. Definitely is covered in this book to great detail.

I notice we seem not to be allowed to talk about groups of girls in schools identifying as trans en mass and the harm being caused to them

It is very telling isn’t it. I was trying to post to the thread When it came down.

This is a good book. If you are a regular reader of this board, you will have read some of the data etc. I found this excellent to understand the degree of pressure these girls feel though. Particularly after they have been made to believe their parents are bigots and will never understand and then if they start questioning, they are threatened to be ostracized from the only support they have. I have seen this enacted on social media too.

What makes it a significant book is that I am watching the effects of this ideology play out in real time amongst my mid teen daughter’s friends. It might be great that they are experimenting with identity, but the extremes they have started to believe and try to uphold is bonkers. That 4 out of 7 in this group of all lesbians are now trans is a major alert for me. My daughter has very poor mental health at the moment and I feel very much that it is related somewhat to this.

Apparently, their entire conversations revolve around their lesbian identity and their gender identity. It is very self absorbed. They don’t discuss movies, TV shows, books unless it is about a LGBT character (so no discussion on neutral issues like GBBO then).

I don’t think my daughter even knows whether her friends have siblings. They don’t even discuss current affairs or major world events unless it stays in the LGBT parameters and then it is always pro- gender ideology.

They certainly discuss whether they have been misgendered or if they perceive someone as being homophobic. I can see my daughter starting to pull back from interacting with some of them as they are too intense for her own mental health.

As a person who make friends very rarely, it is heartbreaking. I ask if she talks to any of them about her own mental health concerns or any troubles and she doesn’t. The comment is ‘we don’t do that kind of thing’. Wtf? So they are all performance and no tangible support.

This book was really helpful to pull it all together and to make me feel that my daughter’s group is by far not the only one effected.

Sorry for the long thread, it was meant for the deleted thread so was still in my mind.

I notice we seem not to be allowed to talk about groups of girls in schools identifying as trans en mass and the harm being caused to them
Really I can't believe that can actually be happening.,

Really I can't believe that can actually be happening.

we can’t talk about it, shhhhh!

Winesalot my post was going to be that your daughter (or others in similar positions) need to consider their own needs from friendship groups and that they may need to retreat from this one whilst this ideology remains so dominant within it. I suspect if she does she might find others quietly follow. A new club could give her an ‘out’ as well as the beginnings of new friendships?

Aesop

I can see a quiet breakaway happening already. But.. thing is my daughter has significant social anxiety so forming new friendships is hard. In saying that, she is stronger than she thinks despite that sometimes crippling anxiety and has naturally started doing this anyway. I hope.

If it wasn’t for MN I wouldn’t have had anywhere near the insights I do have. So I am very thankful for these threads. And any advice or insights people have.

Which is why it’s important that threads like the original one wasn’t deleted. A lot of good insights on there. This one deserves to stay up so that other concerned mothers can find it.
It IS also happening in my daughters school, it’s happening in her friend group.

It’s stupid to imply that anyone’s daughter is a fair weather friend for not going along with it and it’s important to acknowledge that girls are scared by what’s going on, especially autistic girls.

The Shrier book goes into detail about how children get overtaken by this as their interest, their ONLY interest. It becomes all consuming.
Interesting on the other post that someone was talking about this being groups of middle class white girls who aren’t oppressed in any other way. We are POC and my DD’s friends are all from lovely families with no oppression and yet suddenly are all crying and weeping at how marginalised they are.

are all crying and weeping at how marginalised they are.

That is very much a teen thing. Teenagers are never understood and parents know nothing. Kevin anyone? Part of being a teenager is about finding your own tribe away from parents. Which is why they are so vulnerable to this.

MN has been captured imvho. Gradually less and less discussion around these matters is being tolerated, other contentious political concepts too and I am told you're banned without even a warning or email these days if you cross the line. Definitely a change in policy and far less chances given.

I posted on the other thread and next time I looked it had been zapped- I brought up this book....is that why it got deleted?

Looking forward to reading it. I have ordered it from my local independent bookshop who are sourcing it from USA as it could not be obtained here. It will cost quite a lot more than from Amazon but I refuse to give them my business on this. Likewise, when I enquired in Waterstones the lady searched on the computer, paused, lowered her glasses and gave me a hard stare before saying they did not stock it but could get it for me.

I doubt it was because of you madmarch.
We have a right to talk about our children.

The End of Gender by Debra Soh is an excellent read too.

My friend’s 13 year old daughter came downstairs at a dinner party and announced to us she was pansexual. She slumped down the stairs and started crying saying no one would accept her.
There was a gay couple sitting at the dinner table looking slightly erked as they had bought a really nice bottle of wine and some chocolates.
13 year old continues to sob and her parents looked puzzled. Eventually she was placated by the promise of buying a t shirt she had seen with a rainbow statement on it and some blue hair dye.

Since then she’s been telling everyone who will listen that she is “pan”

She’s never kissed a boy or a girl.

Recently finished AS's book. It tells it like it is, while remaining "kind". She knows what is happening to girls is wrong and that institutions, at every level, are failing girls and women.

The worry is: the people who need to read this book, will not read this book. Teachers, doctors, mental health professionals, uni staff at all levels, need to read this. How can this just be ignored-- not ignored even, rather "affirmed" by all?

The worry is: the people who need to read this book, will not read this book. Teachers, doctors, mental health professionals, uni staff at all levels, need to read this. How can this just be ignored-- not ignored even, rather "affirmed" by all?

I'm a teacher and I've read it and I've read Debra Soh's

I'm hugely concerned about what I'm seeing in schools

Winesalot, I could have written your posts. I am
Considering sending a copy of the is book to the head of my daughter’s school

It’s stupid to imply that anyone’s daughter is a fair weather friend for not going along with it

It is back to the idea that women and girls are merely support persons; they exist to help others.

What is the reason for so many girls identifying as gay or trans? I hope it's okay to ask.

@GettingUntrapped they aren't identifying as gay, when a lot of them probably are gay, that's part of the issue!

So homophobic is the society we live in that it's more acceptable for a young girl to say she's a boy that to say she is a lesbian. And then undergo permanent changes to her body which could result in infertility.

Homophobia was cited in the cases at the tavi for reasons behind wanting to transition.

Since then she’s been telling everyone who will listen that she is “pan"

Oh jeez..poor girl.
Trouble is pan is kinda sold as the best most inclusive sexuality.. its not as harmless as it sounds .

I mean adults sure knock yourself out you have learnt boundries consent etc presumably but kids...