Just read Abigail Shrier’s Book

[Wandawomble]

What an eye opener and very reflective of what I’m seeing with my kids in their schools and their friend groups.
Fantastic read and would highly recommend to anyone concerned about this. I got it as the audio book.

@Wandawomble

Which is why it’s important that threads like the original one wasn’t deleted. A lot of good insights on there. This one deserves to stay up so that other concerned mothers can find it. It IS also happening in my daughters school, it’s happening in her friend group.

It’s stupid to imply that anyone’s daughter is a fair weather friend for not going along with it and it’s important to acknowledge that girls are scared by what’s going on, especially autistic girls.

The Shrier book goes into detail about how children get overtaken by this as their interest, their ONLY interest. It becomes all consuming.
Interesting on the other post that someone was talking about this being groups of middle class white girls who aren’t oppressed in any other way. We are POC and my DD’s friends are all from lovely families with no oppression and yet suddenly are all crying and weeping at how marginalised they are.

I understand what you mean here but teenage girls, even if white and middle class, absolutely are 'oppressed in another way', being girls. Huge focus on looks, being photogenic and gender conforming. They don't seem to notice this background oppression though.

I notice we seem not to be allowed to talk about groups of girls in schools identifying as trans en mass and the harm being caused to them

I can't help but assume that this is because it highlights the disparate nature of the groups under the 'Trans umbrella'. Concerns about social contagion in a vulnerable group undermine claims that this is a rainbow coloured sparkly coalition of people finding their 'true selves'.

Mumsnut

It really is a concern. And it is being minimized by so many who can’t see the problem. Who believe that is phobic to discuss it on MN.

It is also the lack of interest in day to day lives of their friends outside of that issue.

It's incredible that a site specifically set up for parents to discuss their parenting concerns does not allow parents to discuss the major concern currently damaging their children.

I notice we seem not to be allowed to talk about groups of girls in schools identifying as trans en mass and the harm being caused to them

Very sinister indeed.

It comes to something when you can't talk about genuine concerns for your child on a parenting site.

She’s never kissed a boy or a girl.

I've noticed more and more parents on here saying their 11, 12, 13yo has come out as gay/bi/lesbian and thats always my first though too. I know most people just know but its also an age where there's a lot of confusion about sexuality, I know I had very strong girl crushes but after going through puberty I am definitely heterosexual.

Many of these girls are feeling that they need to announce their sexuality before they have had a chance to have sexual experiences. Youngest DD age 7 was on Robloks talking about being gay to other children. We took the device off her. It’s not about being gay, it’s about the age these kids are declaring their sexuality because the internet is teaching them it is fashionable and desirable to be talking about their sexual preferences.

To clarify one of my other kids is a lesbian. She doesn’t feel the need to tell everyone constantly because she doesn’t want adults to hear her talking about sexual preferences.

wanda

We have also seen it on twitter, adults being told that pan is the only acceptable sexuality.

Its not enough to have girls taught that being a lesbian means accepting certain body parts.

Now children are being told that from the beginning. We need to ask who that benefits.

It’s not about being gay, it’s about the age these kids are declaring their sexuality because the internet is teaching them it is fashionable and desirable to be talking about their sexual preferences.

You said that so much better than me. This is what concerns me. My clubbing days were in the 90's when it was all about "lipstick lesbians", all performance to turn on the boys and not at all helpful to actual lesbians I was friends with. This feels very similar, but these children are way to young to understand the implications of their behaviour.

I've noticed more and more parents on here saying their 11, 12, 13yo has come out as gay/bi/lesbian and thats always my first though too.

While I am not concerned if my daughter is a lesbian or bi, I am concerned about her choosing this to fit in rather than coming to this conclusion through allowing her attractions to develop. She decided at 11 or 12 with a group of her friends at the same time after being told she must be a lesbian by bullies because she didn’t want to talk about boys and kissing.

I have heard other friends say it had become a thing at their daughter’s school too. She thought it was about having the ‘coming out’ effect. Not to say that many of these girls are not lesbian or bisexual but it does seem to be mixed in with other issues at a very early stage.

What’s the potential harm?

Well at 14, my daughter is now confessed feeling concerned that she might be asexual, not lesbian at all. It is adding to her poor mental health that she should be feeling this or that and she is not. This is despite my repeated advice that is fine either way, that she hasn’t felt that attraction to someone in real life yet and just let things take their time. She will find out that she is hetero/bi/homo/a sexual eventually and it will be all fine by us.

There is pressure to ‘be’ something, to belong to a group.

I tried so hard when she was a tween to tell her that sometimes taking on labels means we feel that we must fit that label rather than being free to be the person we are. But she was desperate to fit in and has told me that labels help her belong.

This is my concern about these early announcements at 11/12, it is when it is contributing to feeling that there is something wrong with them if they don’t strictly fit the label.

Winesalot - that sounds so worrying.

I find it very disturbing how Mumsnet is silencing womens' voices. Absolutely abysmal.

Greektome

I am lucky in that my daughter talks to me about most things. Imagine if you were a teen who didn’t have that relationship with a parent and all you are getting is well intentioned but illformed advice from your friends. That is what is happening in this group.

There is so much to be concerned about here - for parents, as parents, by parents, which is pretty much MN’s mission statement. DD1 has started to describe herself as a lesbian and we are all fully supportive of that, while trying not to make it the focus of her whole sense of self. But the status attributed to trans identities terrifies me. We’ve always discussed feminist ideas but I fear her either becoming absorbed under the trans umbrella, or finding herself increasingly isolated if she doesn’t ‘comply’.

Friends daughter decided she was a lesbian when she was 15 after a horrible encounter when a boy tried to force her to give him a BJ.

3 years later having had no relationships with either sex she now thinks she’s bi

I don’t know if she’s lesbian, bi or straight but what I do think is that she was horribly frightened by an encounter with the opposite sex at a time when she was very vulnerable.

Before the forced BJ incident she had only ever seen herself as straight

Thats really sad Kit19 I guess if so many young people don't feel able to properly discuss their confused feelings then this is where it leads them.
There's been a huge backlash from #MeToo, you only have to see the conversation around Johnny Depp as one example, and young people are so sexualised, even more so than when we were younger that I can see that is seems to be that straight girls have to be seen as up for anything or just check out from it.

She decided at 11 or 12 with a group of her friends at the same time after being told she must be a lesbian by bullies because she didn’t want to talk about boys and kissing.

Exactly, when I was that age boys my own age were revolting and older boys were terrifying, but as a child of the 80s I was able to discover my sexuality at my own pace.

I'm sorry about your daughter no wonder it affecting her mental health.

Now children are being told that from the beginning. We need to ask who that benefits.

Well when it's "children born in the wrong body who need support" then it becomes less about the autogynephilic men this is all really about, who are sexually aroused by wearing women's clothing and underwear and pretending to be lesbians. There's not masses of support for them in the mainstream. Make it about vulnerable, unhappy, suicidal kids though and who is going to argue with that?

I was thinking more about who benefits from encouraging sexuality, that by its very nature is exclusionary, to be "inclusive "

How, kids being told that every sexuality can include those with a certain appendage, is inclusive and progressive ..

Yes, that too. It's a horror show really and I can't see how we can stop it. It's too far gone. I hate saying that but I have been active on this for five years and it's just steadily grown. It feels unstoppable.

I think this is really important from Winesalot upthread:
Apparently, their entire conversations revolve around their lesbian identity and their gender identity. It is very self absorbed. They don’t discuss movies, TV shows, books unless it is about a LGBT character (so no discussion on neutral issues like GBBO then). I don’t think my daughter even knows whether her friends have siblings. They don’t even discuss current affairs or major world events unless it stays in the LGBT parameters and then it is always pro- gender ideology. They certainly discuss whether they have been misgendered or if they perceive someone as being homophobic. I can see my daughter starting to pull back from interacting with some of them as they are too intense for her own mental health

Isn't this similar to girls with eating disorders with the pro ana sites and spending hours online being influenced by all sorts of randoms? Equally girls and boys being radicalised online? Both groups absorb themselves in an ideology that effectively removes them from the influence of their parents and families and ultimately affects and changes their lives. Incredible how easily adults spot what is happening to these groups of vulnerable children yet are reluctant to even ask the question as to whether this group of ROGD girls might also being influenced in a similar manner? We must talk about this and question how and why this is happening.

I’ve got the book too. My DD isnt a teen but from teenaged relatives I’ve heard that there are “trans boys” in their schools.
I’ve met several “trans boys” in the course of my job. All were struggling with MH and were nothing like the vocal TRAs online

Shrier notes how today’s youth are having fewer romantic/sexual encounters. They seem to talk about it online but aren’t experimenting in the same way teens used to. At 13 I’d kissed a few boys, gone on double dates but then we weren’t cooped up indoors on devices
If you watch The Social Dilemma they recommend no social media until 16. Without social media would “trans” have even happened?!

Unfortunately my stand against social media crumbled in lockdown as it was the means by which teenagers were staying in contact with friends.

I did have a conversation about needing to critically assess information presented online. And if people wave scientitic sounding papers then you need to look to see if they really do back up their statements.

@napody
You are right, sorry I worded that clumsily and probably misquoted the good comment on the other deleted thread. Add your comment to my thing I was trying to say 😂

The fact they are girls is creating an oppressive structure from the boys in their classes as they are being exposed to porn via the boys etc as just a start along with all the other things we know.