'To say that some men rape and sexually assault women and girls is an uncontroversial fact'

[HecatesCats]

Kathleen Stock has written an excellent blog reflecting on the alleged rape in Mitcham and how best to protect women and girls from dangerous men:

'Other than teaching women self-protection, a second thing a society can do to reduce rape and sexual assault is to encourage safeguarding social norms to get embedded, so that it becomes unusual and indeed remarkable for men to be in public areas where women and girls undress or sleep.'

kathleenstock.com/noticing-reality/

The original story:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8910225/Pictured-Man-hunted-police-rape-attack-teenage-girl-South-London.html

Alternative news link:

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/mitcham-arrest-alleged-rape-b44874.html

Just read. It's an excellent read.

Kudos to Kathleen Stock. That's such a powerful article.

Wow, that's a great piece.

Isn't it. I shouldn't have said that she is reflecting on the incident specifically, it's about safeguarding. I like the way she sees off the sort of derailing arguments you might get during a discussion on social media. It's revealing that she needs to do that.

This is a brilliant essay.

I'm interested to hear opposing views. I notice a few posters recently who I disagree with (about some stuff) and I'm genuinely interested as to what their take on this would be.

Actually there's a slight problem I have with it, but it's more sideways to the issue or a post script to the post script. Some women who are vulnerable to attack by males are already traumatised from prior attacks. They might wish to "fight back" but when it comes to it, will freeze. I don't know enough about whether self defence classes can help one override a subconscious trauma defence.

Totally agree Brassica that it's interesting to hear opposing views, it's the individuals who want to prevent discussion by derailing with whataboutery and straw men that I'm particularly thinking of.

You can feel the anger in her words.

It's an amazing blog post.

gosh Hecates and I am shocked! shocked I tell you that so far none of them have...

She's brilliant. So well said.

I am shocked! shocked I tell you that so far none of them have...

It never happens Kit

That’s brilliant

Or maybe you’ve made a calculation, consciously or unconsciously, and decided that there’s no social capital to be had in feeling outraged about sexual violence against women

Looking at you Women’s fucking Equality Party you useless bunch of dilettantes

Spot on tweet:

Kathleen Stock @Docstockk
4 Nov
The video of the attempted abduction of a young girl is beyond upsetting but I hope it reminds the cossetted, financially insulated performance artists arguing for gender neutral public spaces think twice about what they are giving away in the name of “social justice”.

(Responses saying “it happened in the street” “it will happen anyway” and “my bathroom at home is gender neutral” will be ridiculed as moronic jokers.)

That is excellent. Brava Ms Stock.

That happened to my mum

She was dragged into an alley and rescued by a man and woman

Its a fantastic blog post

Excellent piece. And infuriating. That poor girl.

So dreadful
Was the Sec 60 because people were angry and going out looking for the rapist?

@BrassicaRabbit

This is a brilliant essay.

I'm interested to hear opposing views. I notice a few posters recently who I disagree with (about some stuff) and I'm genuinely interested as to what their take on this would be.

Actually there's a slight problem I have with it, but it's more sideways to the issue or a post script to the post script. Some women who are vulnerable to attack by males are already traumatised from prior attacks. They might wish to "fight back" but when it comes to it, will freeze. I don't know enough about whether self defence classes can help one override a subconscious trauma defence.

I think her point is, that regardless of whether the woman fights back, doesn't fight back, freezes because of shock/ past trauma/ disbelief that this is happening to her/ whatever.... it is never her fault.

The attack happens because the attacker decided to use his superior strength and social capital to take advantage of a woman.

I really like Kathleen Stock. I don't think the trans element will persuade anyone who isn't already very GC though. The suggestion that trans women may be sexual predators has been debated to death and I can't see this this blog post changing anyone's mind who believes TWAW.

Every woman does indeed have a list of incidents that have happened at the hands of men. (Sorry to hear of your Mum's experience Rufus that's truly awful). But 99.9% of the time the perpetrators are men not trans women.

Excellent read, thanks OP. This paragraph has really struck out at me and I think summarises what so many of us try of other posters on these boards -

The short answer is: I don’t know. In some people, there seems to be an automatic demotion of the interests/feelings/safety of women and girls which isn’t so much rational as pathological. If you are one of these people, reading this, chances are your brain is right now firing off distracting rejoinders at a rate of knots: “what about trans women at risk of attack in male bathrooms?” “what about trans men misgendered in women’s changing rooms?”; “are you saying all trans women are predators?”; “won’t some women just get raped anyway?”. In which case I ask you, in turn: what is it that makes you go to those questions first? Why can’t you stick with the subject, even for a minute? Why does the dramatically imagined plight of a trans person forced to use the “wrong” changing room somehow always seems a lot worse to you than the plight of a sexually assaulted woman or girl, or one who reasonably fears she might be? Why don’t you feel her panic rising, not to mention her physical pain? Why can’t you imagine her nightmares afterwards? Why can’t you think of her future, newly reconstructed with places she can’t easily go, and things she can’t easily remember?

Gah - that should read "summarises what so many of us ask others who disagree with the GC view, to consider.

Yesterday I also saw a piece about how responses to J.K. Rowling’s recent interventions about women’s rights have exposed a “generational divide”. Young people tend to reject her views about, say, the importance of single-sex spaces for women, whilst older people tend to embrace them. Well no shit, Sherlock! Young people are.... young. They haven’t been on the planet for very long. For this reason, they lack detailed information about patterns of behaviour in the world. They put personal experiences down to being one-offs, rather than seeing them as part of larger systems. This is not their fault - it’s normal for their stage of development. But this lack of information also makes them susceptible to magical thinking and unrealistic optimism. To put it crudely, many kids still believe in a fairy tale: that a male declaring he is a woman makes something magic happen, which means that from that point on, all general male-related safeguarding structures are irrelevant. I used to think this too when I was younger. But then I left Neverland.

It's an excellent blog post. This paragraph particularly.

Just brilliant. Thank you, Kathleen.

Even as a young woman I was aware of the danger of males. I backpacked for quite some time in South America and Asia and the number of times I barely escaped assault doesn't bear thinking about. I quickly learned to adapt my behaviour: never to travel alone, wear clothing appropriate to the culture, etc. Doing so is never victim blaming, and I'm so glad she made that clear.

I knew from a young age to avoid being in any space where a strange man could have access to me. Even then, it was unavoidable. Try walking down a street in a foreign country and having male passersby openly grabbing your boobs (one after the other!) , or shoving his hand into your crotch from behind as you get into a bus, or breaking into your (cheap) hotel room. Or being propositioned just because you were not travelling with your husband or brother. Assuming you are there just for the taking.

So yes, I was never one for mixed-sex facilities, even in my carefree youth.

I should maybe have name-changed for this as I've spoken of these things elsewhere under my real name but frankly, I'm getting tired of hiding.

It’s an excellent post but I’ve read it and feel cold, because my horrific attack was a date rape and so it feels like my fault I went.

I know it isn’t, but the idea that it’s only mixed spaces or grabbed off the streets makes rapes from known men somehow excluded, and they are the majority and the hardest to prosecute.

drizzle

I know how you feel. Mine was a stranger but I was drunk so also v much internalised the blame.

It's awful really, having to use rape stories in an argument to secure very basic rights for women and girls. I want to post this article on FB but last time I posted about women's rights I had to watch a friend & a male acquaintance give each other woke brownie points in the comments. It felt devastating. A purely academic argument for them. But my reality.