"You can be the idea of a woman"

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Richard O'Brien is still my hero; www.theguardian.com/stage/2020/nov/05/richard-obrien-interview-rocky-horror-trans-crack-stroke-70s?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Comments switched off?

I haven't seen comments enabled on any trans related article in the graun, assume they are using the Keir Starmer method of trying to please all of the people all of the time, whilst not doing.

As an aside, I'm not entirely happy with the "idea of a woman" but I wouldn't mind looking like Richard O'Brien and having had his career (and opportunities?).

Good that he immediately defends JK Rowling. He's looking well.

A few months ago, however, the rakish Rocky Horror Show creator, Crystal Maze presenter and transgender parent-of-three received a stark reminder of his advancing years.

In what way? Has Richard O'Brian been female identified as male all along and I didn't notice?

Fucks sake transgender parent-of-three

He came out as transgender comparatively recently, saying at the time “I believe myself probably to be about 70% male, 30% female … I think of myself as a third sex and it makes things easier.”

I give up. He's a bloke, he's called Richard, he's married to a woman and had 3 children.

He thinks shaving is feminising.

It's all bollocks. It's completely meaningless and makes no sense.

And the advice when responding to the Women and Equalities Committee call for evidence is to be careful, compromise, make sure they want to keep reading.

When transgender now just means absolutely anything anyone wants it to

He's always been interesting and not quite what you expect.

I'm not sure it is possible for any trans person to say out loud what they are without it sounding wrong, how the hell do you explain it?, so I'll forgive him, an actor/writer, for his attempt. He is being honest, he wants to live, in part, as he idea of a woman... and if you've read any woman he has written that's exactly what he is doing. Brash, strong, in charge, delighted with himself! Almost as if Magenta grew up, found her inner Columbia and then thought Fuck It!

He thinks shaving is feminising. And explained why? He didn't say shaving makes you a woman... but that it fits the social stereoptyping!

He is what he is... he doesn't claim to be a woman and is pretty certain he can't be transgender enough for TRAs. What do you want him, and all the other happily gender bending men and women who believe they cannot change sex, think JKR was right and that TRAs are dangerous, to do?

The key paragraph, in case you don't want to read it all:
“You and I have to be very careful here,” he says, sounding wary for the first time. “We’ve seen what’s been happening with JK Rowling. I think anybody who decides to take the huge step with a sex change deserves encouragement and a thumbs-up. As long as they’re happy and fulfilled, I applaud them to my very last day. But you can’t ever become a natural woman. I think that’s probably where Rowling is coming from. That’s as far as I’m going to go because people get upset if I have an opinion that doesn’t line up with theirs. They think I’m being mean-spirited and I don’t want that at all.” He came out as transgender comparatively recently, saying at the time “I believe myself probably to be about 70% male, 30% female … I think of myself as a third sex and it makes things easier.”

I think his idea of being "30% female" is a load of woo-woo, but I do appreciate his distinguishing between trans women and "natural women" and his standing up for Rowling.

I think his idea of being "30% female" is a load of woo-woo, Me too. But this set me to thinking, again, how do you describe being trans?

A deluded wo/man? Bit harsh!

Try it. A definition of the physiological, psychological and sociological realities of bening trans. I can get the first sentence done but cannot compete it without sounding equally 'woo-woo'.

It would be so much better to say 30% masculine and 70% feminine, and call it something different altogether, to explain your sartorial choices. Something that doesn't involve politics, or has a sexual motivation.

He seems a very creative bloke, he should be able to grasp that.

The words men and women do not describe thinking, clothing, or behaviour. They are the wrong words for what he appears to be describing.

For him, woman describes the way he feels, for someone like Sam Smith, it describes his bloody thighs.

No.

It’s depressing that he has been brainwashed by the patriarchy into believing gender stereotypes. He isn’t 30% anything, he is 100% male and just likes shaving off body hair.
Why can’t men just accept themselves the way they are? Plenty of men like hairless chests, fashion, knitting, expressing emotion, (insert feminine stereotype of choice) - it doesn’t make them a different sex!
And it’s interesting that he spent his formative years in New Zealand, which has high levels of domestic violence and a toxic macho culture. I suspect he was reacting against that.

They are the wrong words for what he appears to be describing. Yep! My grwoing defintion has those pencilled for when I get a good sentence to surround them.

It's proving harder than I thought! I can make a stereitypically RadFem one but not one that any transperson would live with. And as we, women, object to being forced to accept unwelcome labels, I am trying to avoid that.

Note I am not trying to please TRAs, just thinking of trans friends and how they might describe themselves avoiding the issues highlighted here.

Or maybe the divide is now too wide and some GC women won't/can't allow that?

Plenty of men like hairless chests, fashion, knitting, expressing emotion, (insert feminine stereotype of choice) - it doesn’t make them a different sex!

because this is the whole central point in a nutshell.

When did 1950s stereotypes suddenly become ‘progressive’?

OH shaved today. Online meeting.

Just asked OH why is he shaved and thus 'presenting as a woman'. He just said "what a load of nonsense!"

If a woman shaves her legs, what is she presenting as? Or what is the shaved head O'Brien presenting as? As humans normally have body and head hair, are these shavers presenting now as other than human?

I don't think I could go any further up my bottom than this.

I'd rather not shave, in fact during lockdown 1 I went full early medieval, what percentage male does that make me?

I just read the article and came straight here to say pretty much exactly what's been said. Some of it was gender stereotyping nonsense, although he kind of recognises that it's conforming to a social construct, not actually being female.

But the biggie is the support for JKR and the fact that changing gender identity doesn't mean you change sex. Boom, right there, my thoughts on transgenderism summed up by RO'B, brilliant!

Now let's see if he gets death threats and calls to his publisher and theatres to cancel him. Let's see if the TRAs call for a boycott of Rocky Horror and burn all their French maid outfits and corsets!

Like fuck will that happen.

I think the trouble is that the whole trans narrative has corrupted language so far that we then can't work with any creativity around it.

20 years ago, we'd have got what Richard O'Brian meant about being 30% female - we'd have known what he was trying to communicate, even if the literal meaning of the words can't make sense.

Now, with our words being taken from us, we double down on the literal meaning, because when we gave an inch to TRAs, they took the proverbial mile, (and then told us we weren't even allowed to mention that first inch). But with Richard O'Brian, everything I've read, and previously seen, suggests that he's trying to express an idea, rather than meaning to corrupt the words and steal them from us.

That!! Thanks @TreestumpsAndTrampolines

Much better than my attempt!

From the article I think anybody who decides to take the huge step with a sex change deserves encouragement and a thumbs-up.

Why? Each to their own and it is obviously someone's own choice if they want to alter their appearance. However, I don't see what is to be lauded or congratulated about anyone getting elective cosmetic surgery for any reason whatsoever. Cosmetic surgery is surgery which is not needed to maintain an otherwise healthy body.

Maybe I could draw from "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" could sum up how I view cosmetic surgery. In this book, people are divided into Classicists and Romantics. The romanticists are people who tend to see only the surface appearance of an object. You can usually say a romanticist is frivolous, shallow, erratic, and irrational.

On the other hand a classicist is usually the opposite. A classicist is someone who sees the underlying form of an object, is usually straight forward, and is more fascinated by the function of an object rather than the appearance of it.

No guessing I'm bigging myself up as a Classicist.

Handy little synopsis. Don't agree with all of it.
etinfo.tripod.com/essays/id8.html

What Treestumps said, I didn't see anything offensive in what he said. He doesn't claim to not be a man, he explicitly says you can't change sex, in that context I think the way he describes himself as a "third sex" is not meant to be taken literally.

“I believe myself probably to be about 70% male, 30% female … I think of myself as a third sex and it makes things easier.”

He's 100% male. Shaving isn't the definition of female.

Interesting that he likes New Zealand because it hasn't a class hierarchy. But likes the hierarchy that allows men to define what female is to "whatever suits them" , doesn't he?

I agree with Datun's point about masculine and feminine. He's not describing what it is to be female and he knows he isn't female so to then say he's 30% female is a contradiction. Part of him enjoys indulging in stereotypical trappings of femininity.

20 years ago, we'd have got what Richard O'Brian meant about being 30% female - we'd have known what he was trying to communicate, even if the literal meaning of the words can't make sense.

He's an intelligent man. He knows the word feminine exists, he knows that women are losing rights because of tra.

Yet he decides to announce that he is part female?

It's one of those articles that is outrageously offensive and infuriates me, and yet I can't post what I think because if I'm as rude in reply as this article has been to me, I'll be punished for it.

And there, in a nutshell, is the power imbalance that makes this so fucking offensive.

However, I don't see what is to be lauded or congratulated about anyone getting elective cosmetic surgery for any reason whatsoever. Cosmetic surgery is surgery which is not needed to maintain an otherwise healthy body. Much as I agree with your idea of cosmetic surgery, I've spent 20+ years supporting a friend through his surgeries (FtM). Whilst still 'she' she had to make some very hard decisions, knowng that once started she couldn't turn any of it back, that she would lose a lot of time, money and her long term girlfriend (who had always said she couldn't support the whole transformation).

His coming out at work was dealt with by the big boss, very matter of fact. He has a GRC. His final surgery was one of the most harrowing things I have supported anyone through - though the tales he tells of it now are all humerous!

He is now married, to my ex boss, female, never gay, and happy with his body, his life. But he knows he is female... just lives a male life.

Which is what got me pondering how that definition isn't acceptable. Is female living a masculine life? But I do that, if you go by stereotypes, and I haven't any desire to be a man!