Guilty of hate speech at home?

[FeedTheSparrows]

Forgive me if there's already a thread on this, but an article in The Times today says: "The Law Commission has proposed removing the “dwelling exemption” from 34-year-old legislation covering “stirring up” offences in a move that its experts argue would clarify the law."

Apparently this would, "...criminalise dinner-table conversations in which casual comments were made about other nationalities or groups such as transgender people."

Here's a link to the piece: www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/extending-hate-speech-laws-to-private-homes-crazy-d7k99llrk

'Afraid I don't know how the share token thing works to get round the paywall. (Happy to learn for future ref!)

That sounds like a police state law to me. Soviet Russia had similar law, and that is where the saying “the walls have ears” came from.

I saw this in the Daily Mail. It's very worrying - policing what we can say in our homes.

It's an abusive partner's dream.

(I have had a Times sub for years, and still can't manage share tokens!)

I know Humza Yousuf has been pushing Scotland down this direction, but I hadn't realised there were proposals to extend it to England and Wales. Bloody terrifying.

It is time to consider repealing laws on hate speech (existing laws on incitement should be sufficient protection), and introducing explicit laws to protect free speech.

How on earth would this work with burden of proof? Unless they're also going to start accepting secret recordings. Is that allowed under Scottish laws?

And beyond the practicalities, what sort of state are the Scottish government wanting to create if this is their priority? Do they see this as a positive move? To me it has all the worst hallmarks of a police state.

I'm at least glad you don't think I have overreacted!

That would be very chilling considering how much modern tech listens in on us. Don't even need a family member to turn you in. Alexa will do it for you

And it is not just me who has no idea how to 'do' a share token...

Wait E&W as well now? Jesus H Christ.

How on earth would this work with burden of proof? Unless they're also going to start accepting secret recordings. Is that allowed under Scottish laws?

That's a very interesting point. Several people in Scotland have been saying that you could end up being reported for what your child repeated at school - but given the rules in Scottish law over "corroboration" it's hard to see how this could be made to stick.

Share token here

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/688063bc-1e91-11eb-a6f9-33c15bd31337?shareToken=1b2bc3b876855892ced70a5bbe336041

Took me a while to work out how to create them but as far as I know you can’t do it from the app. You have to go to the website, click the envelope at the top of the article, and then copy the link from the email that is auto generated.

I live in Scotland and work as a lecturer and this scares the shit out of me.

Jeeze thats grim. I was watching a Storyville about blasphemy laws in Pakistan. People being shunned, imprisoned and brutalised just on the word of others, and of course the law is abused and manipulated all the time.

I don’t pretend to be any kind of legal expert, but I can’t help feeling that hate speech laws are dangerous.

Perhaps someone who knows better than I will correct me but isn’t incitement to violence enough to protect us along with laws on harassment, libel and slander?

Laws against what we can say in our own homes is an alarming prospect!

So all debating clubs are out then? No critical thinking allowed. Who decides what is hate and what was intended to be hate?

This is it if you have I Player www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000fzpl

Scary if this is our future.

The new proposed hate law in Scotland should scare the shit out of everyone.

This is what we face in Scotland.

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-bill/

And guess which protected characteristic is not covered in the bill, that's right sex.

I am convinced hate speech laws are essentially just a secular version of blasphemy laws.

You cannot police the thoughts of the heart. That is the obsession of fanatics. This is bad, bad law, and as a firm believer in the virtues of freedom and reason, I believe this should be firmly resisted.

What could possibly go wrong? No-one would use this for malicious purposes, quite apart from the whole police-state nature of monitoring private speech.

One of the human rights is to a private life, and I think this contravenes that human right.

I am convinced hate speech laws are essentially just a secular version of blasphemy laws.

Very much so. Having carefully left out sex from the list of protected characteristics, all they need to do is gradually increase the penalties and before you know it, all the strong, plain-speaking feminist (or religious, or just sensible) are silenced.

I agree this is an abuser's wet dream. A great strategy for teed off teenagers too. No evidence required, just word against word.

Makes me think an obvious extension to this would be to form a lovely free club for children, primary aged branch and secondary aged branch, where they could meet, play games together, sing songs, learn all about right think, and be reminded of what and how to report their parents and family and neighbours. They could all wear nice brown uniforms and be called something like SNP Youth.

Looks like I’m hanging onto my username for a while then.

Yes Michelle. It's sinister and creepy thought-policing.