Amnesty says feminist resistance to self-ID "is misguided and not based on evidence"

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

I wrote to Amnesty explaining why I had stopped sending them money, as their support for self-ID was harmful to women and girls. Their reply has just hit my inbox:

"We are sorry to hear about your concerns but Amnesty International is committed to campaigning for the rights of transgender people to live freely, authentically, and openly, and to have their gender legally recognised without having to go through a dehumanising, long and costly procedure.

"We do not believe this goes against our campaigning for women’s rights. We feel the current conversation, in particular on social media with regards to self-identification, is misguided and not based on evidence. Restricting the rights of transgender people will not advance or protect women's rights.

"Our campaigning on this issue is based on Amnesty’s research on legal gender recognition in multiple countries and on existing human rights standards. It also draws from our long-standing work on violence against women and its root causes. We do not launch campaigns without solid research and consideration for the human rights of all groups concerned, and we dispute any assertions that self-identification will be used by men in order to access spaces where women are vulnerable to abuse or harassment. There is absolutely no evidence that this would happen.

In countries where self-identification is already the process (Argentina, Ireland) the policy has had absolutely no impact on anyone other than trans people, making their lives easier."

So doing a bit of paperwork, rewarded by an unprecedented right to change your birth certificate, is "dehumanising". But opening women's single-sex spaces to all comers is just fine?

I think Irish women on MN have recently contradicted claims that everything in the self-ID garden is lovely.

As for we dispute any assertions that self-identification will be used by men in order to access spaces where women are vulnerable to abuse or harassment. There is absolutely no evidence that this would happen -- I'm now going to try to compile a list of TW attacking women in public loos, masturbating in women's refuges, posting their fetish play online from their workplace at a children's charity, etc etc.

I know Amnesty is just sending out a standard letter, but I’m still going to send some of the evidence they deny. MN’s ‘This never happens’ threads will be a good start. All other evidence welcomed.

When did Amnesty stop being about prisoners of conscience? I always assumed that that was its raison d'etre.

Same here. And I bet most of its donations are still made on those grounds, not male sexual rights and gender identity.

Argentina:

www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-detainee-who-impregnated-fellow-inmate-is-released-from-prison-to-prevent-further-incident/

Amnesty have gone off path. Such a pity

Yet another historically sound charity that has lost its focus.

They are no longer fit for purpose.

Taken over by a bunch of money grabbing and rape promoting men.

[quote NotBadConsidering]Argentina:

www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-detainee-who-impregnated-fellow-inmate-is-released-from-prison-to-prevent-further-incident/[/quote]
i expect amnesty would come back with "oh but we must not judge all trans people by one example"

my DH works in health and safety in construction. His workplace has a target of zero accidents; i remember saying to him once that that was mad "you'll never have 0 accidents" and he said "well how many accidents are OK then? 2?, 5?, 10? 100? how many people being hurt is OK? Target must always be 0 because no injury at work should be regarded as OK" and I shut up very quickly.

Strangely though Amnesty et al seem to think that just a few women being hurt is OK, that that is acceptable collatoral damage 1 woman? 2? , 5? 10?, 100? Id love to know how many women were being hurt would be OK before they reconsidered. Which is why they'll never get a penny off me

I’ve said this before, but the number of women who need to be harmed before trans activists care is always

n + 1

where n = actual number of women harmed.

There will always be an infinite demand for one more example.

[quote NotBadConsidering]Argentina:

www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-detainee-who-impregnated-fellow-inmate-is-released-from-prison-to-prevent-further-incident/[/quote]
That story is dreadful. And to top it all, I see the lawyer describes the woman prisoner as 'a pregnant person', which I suppose might possibly be a poor translation but quite likely isn't.

I think what scares me most of all is that our grandchildren won't even have the language to talk about this.

Then there's Barbie Kardashian, deemed such a threat to women, the Garda warned the public of that threat... without seeing fit to mention that the 'teenage girl' in question is a young man.

A genuine threat to public safety at large and they’re concerned about fucking pronouns and this person’s ‘rights to dignity.’

I’ve never had much esteem for Amnesty. They moved far too swiftly from “freedom of speech” to “we’ll be the judge of what’s right, thanks very much.”

Like Stonewall, they’re another group with impressive PR who have positioned themselves as authorities—based on what, I don’t know—and both organisations are enjoying financially support from members of the public who see them as was, not as is.

Here's Amnesty standing with 'People in Poland'

@HecatesCats

Here's Amnesty standing with 'People in Poland'

ARSEHOLES.

They are a dreadful organisation now. In 1977 they were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize with the Irish Peace Movement. It was awarded on the basis
'Amnesty International fights for man’s right to freedom of conscience, in other words, to a life in “internal” peace.'
They are now another organisations drunk on the delusion of their own righteousness and misogynist.

In 2010, the human rights activistGita Sahgal was suspended from Amnesty after criticising its links with Cage. It chose to support Cage rather than listen to one of its respected staff. Of course they've severed their links now.

It's bullying management style has also been exposed following the suicide of a member of staff.

@3timeslucky

In countries where self-identification is already the process (Argentina, Ireland) the policy has had absolutely no impact on anyone other than trans people, making their lives easier

That makes my blood boil.

The only reason they think that the situation in Ireland has "no impact on anyone other than trans people" is because trans people are the only ones they've looked to in informing this viewpoint. Why are groups like the LGB Alliance (in Ireland) being formed? Why are groups like The Countess Didn't Fight For This! and RadCailini emerging if it isn't to voice the impact on women? Why did Donal O'Shea (probably Ireland's leading endocrinologist) raise questions about the approach being taken by the approach being taken to medicalisation of children by the Tavistock staff the HSE employs? Why were those concerns not minuted by the HSE? Why did the HSE choose to remove the word women from information promoting a women's medical service (CervicalCheck)? No impact on anyone but trans people? I don't think so.

Be very clear, the people of Ireland, the women of Ireland, we were not asked how we felt about Self-ID, we were not asked to point out the pitfalls and we have not been asked how it impacts us.

Amnesty knows fuck all about this. And cares even less.

Exactly. And as I posted on another thread, Amnesty had the cheek to host a conference in Dublin a few weeks ago highlighting online misogynistic abuse of female politicians (this from the group of people who don't believe there is such a thing as a female according to their Trans activism).

I think we all need to campaign to get these NGOs out of Government and out of the lobby room of ministers.

This thread made me think more about strategic ignorance. Amnesty (amongst many others) are claiming there is no evidence in the face of evidence that exists. Thinking that they are benefiting from ignoring evidence of women's abuse is depressing.

This New Humanist interview is with the author of a book that came out this year called The Unknowers: How strategic ignorance rules the world by sociologist Linsey McGoey. I'm hopeful that McGoey is not in the Hines category of sociology and is familiar with the concept of sound evidence and reason to make an argument.

newhumanist.org.uk/articles/5534/ignorance-really-is-blissful-especially-for-the-powerful

The interview starts off with a short then longer definition of what strategic ignorance is thought to be.

*I define strategic ignorance as "the ability to exploit the unknowns in any environment in order to gain or to maintain power". But there’s a longer answer. The long answer is that it is defined in two main, different ways in the social sciences. Behavioural economists and psychologists, on the one hand, tend to define strategic ignorance in a psychological way. They see it as the personal avoidance of inconvenient or uncomfortable facts.

Sociologists and historians, on the other hand, usually view it more in line with my definition above. They view strategic ignorance as both an individual and a collective phenomenon. This helps to underscore the role of institutional power and institutional actors in preventing inconvenient facts from becoming more widely known or accepted.*

Anyhow food for thought.

Really not the master of the highlight lol

Here's Amnesty standing with 'People in Poland'

Which 'people' do they mean? Because some 'people' have decided some other 'people' are not allowed abortions. If only there was a word to differentiate between these types of 'people', a way to define the 'people' being forced in to giving birth, we'd know if Amnesty were standing with the right ones...

@HecatesCats

Amnesty helps to 'advance and protect women's rights' by promoting sex work as a 'human right': www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/jul/28/amnesty-international-prostitution-sex-work-human-trafficking

Yes and as soon as they did that they became less a human rights organisation and more of a mens' rights organisation and I stopped having anything to do with them.

I think Amnesty are very clear about what they think of women these days.

When I pushed Amnesty on this point after cancelling my 20yr+ monthly donation one of the rebuttals they gave was the Forth Valley Rape Crisis! (Mridul Wadhwa)
As for this glorious response to the misuse of self ID
“The reality is that men who abuse women already have plenty of existing opportunities to do so”
... from a bloody Human Rights Organisation

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

When I pushed Amnesty on this point after cancelling my 20yr+ monthly donation one of the rebuttals they gave was the Forth Valley Rape Crisis! (Mridul Wadhwa) As for this glorious response to the misuse of self ID “The reality is that men who abuse women already have plenty of existing opportunities to do so” ... from a bloody Human Rights Organisation

So gifting them one more opportunity won't make a jot of difference.

Women really do not matter.

I bet most of their donations come from women, conditioned to be always thinking of other people. Time for all GC women to abandon these women hating charities.

Blue

I bet most of their donations come from women, conditioned to be always thinking of other people. Time for all GC women to abandon these women hating charities

Yes.

The reality is that men who abuse women already have plenty of existing opportunities to do so

So your official strategy and policy, Amnesty, is to give them even more opportunities? Got it.

Money needs to flow to charities that truly focus on girls and women.

Yes Shag.

So your official strategy and policy, Amnesty, is to give them even more opportunities? Got it.

It's shameful isn't it? I used to donate monthly, but I stopped in 2015 over their sex worker policy.

Janice Turner tweet:
"Women in Poland are fighting to save their reproductive rights. Women die in backstreet abortions. Women are forced to carry unviable foetuses to full term. Amnesty International can’t even say the word “women”. Language matters. If you can’t name a thing, how can you fight it?"