Amnesty says feminist resistance to self-ID "is misguided and not based on evidence"

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

I wrote to Amnesty explaining why I had stopped sending them money, as their support for self-ID was harmful to women and girls. Their reply has just hit my inbox:

"We are sorry to hear about your concerns but Amnesty International is committed to campaigning for the rights of transgender people to live freely, authentically, and openly, and to have their gender legally recognised without having to go through a dehumanising, long and costly procedure.

"We do not believe this goes against our campaigning for women’s rights. We feel the current conversation, in particular on social media with regards to self-identification, is misguided and not based on evidence. Restricting the rights of transgender people will not advance or protect women's rights.

"Our campaigning on this issue is based on Amnesty’s research on legal gender recognition in multiple countries and on existing human rights standards. It also draws from our long-standing work on violence against women and its root causes. We do not launch campaigns without solid research and consideration for the human rights of all groups concerned, and we dispute any assertions that self-identification will be used by men in order to access spaces where women are vulnerable to abuse or harassment. There is absolutely no evidence that this would happen.

In countries where self-identification is already the process (Argentina, Ireland) the policy has had absolutely no impact on anyone other than trans people, making their lives easier."

So doing a bit of paperwork, rewarded by an unprecedented right to change your birth certificate, is "dehumanising". But opening women's single-sex spaces to all comers is just fine?

I think Irish women on MN have recently contradicted claims that everything in the self-ID garden is lovely.

As for we dispute any assertions that self-identification will be used by men in order to access spaces where women are vulnerable to abuse or harassment. There is absolutely no evidence that this would happen -- I'm now going to try to compile a list of TW attacking women in public loos, masturbating in women's refuges, posting their fetish play online from their workplace at a children's charity, etc etc.

I know Amnesty is just sending out a standard letter, but I’m still going to send some of the evidence they deny. MN’s ‘This never happens’ threads will be a good start. All other evidence welcomed.

I got the same sort of patronising drivel back in 2018 when I cancelled my donations to them. OP did it come signed or just say from 'the supporter relations team' or such?

In their reply to me they said, "I can confirm that your email has been logged as a complaint and your comments will be read by senior management and by our Board." But I never heard anything else from them on the matter...

Feels like we ought to try making sure are voices are heard by the Board and senior management.

With Ireland's slavish association to the Catholic Church and all its abuses and cover-ups, and long record of barely treating women as human beings (Magdalen laundries, lack of abortion rights until very recently etc), why should anyone look at Ireland as some sort of model of a right thinking/progressive society?

I would urge everyone to listen to "Where is George Gibney" on BBC Sounds. Another massive cover up in Ireland of a child rapist who also happened to be an Olympic level swimming coach. He is still out there, being protected, and his victims continue to suffer. Men train as priests, teachers, sports coaches etc etc to gain access to vulnerable children and women. Heck, Jimmy Saville did it in plain sight. What on earth makes Amnesty think popping on a frock and calling yourself Mary is a bridge too far for an abuser?

So Amnesty do not understand;

• Safeguarding.
• How crimes are recorded and reported.
• women's right to single sex spaces and services that is based on biology, eg needing a place to deal with menstruation or miscarriage.

And they also believe that sex work is work.

Amnesty also thinks using prostituted women is a human right and got a pump to write their pro prostitution manifesto, so Amnesty can fuck right off. It'll be a cold day in hell before I listen to anything Amnesty has to say on what they think constitutes women's rights.

To think back when I was a student, they were the good guys.

Thanks for all these ideas, everyone. My list is rapidly growing.

Amnesty for some time has changed their focus from trying to ensure the basics of free political expression for people, and now seems to want to say that every issue that the west currently sees as important must be fought for no matter how alien to their culture.

I tend to think the latter rather undermines the former.

I have been a member of Amnesty UK for decades . I doubled my monthly subscription last January (still a pitifully small amount) but in light of OP's post I am going to cancel my membership , inform them why and put my money to good use , viz : to establish and maintain the rights of women and girls to privacy , dignity and safety .
Suggestions please , for a suitable trustworthy organisation .

Please do send the evidence. Who knows, you might open at least one pair of eyes at Amnesty.

Amnesty don't give a shiny shit about women being raped. They appoint care about sexual violence. They are TWAW/SWIW because they view the sexual exploitation of women by men as completely normal and acceptable.

SWIW?

They are saying they are disputing that men will want access to places where women are vulnerable.

Snap datum, I made exactly the same point (not as clearly though!)

@ShagMeRiggins

SWIW?

Sex work is work

I just shivered even typing that.

In countries where self-identification is already the process (Argentina, Ireland) the policy has had absolutely no impact on anyone other than trans people, making their lives easier

That makes my blood boil.

The only reason they think that the situation in Ireland has "no impact on anyone other than trans people" is because trans people are the only ones they've looked to in informing this viewpoint. Why are groups like the LGB Alliance (in Ireland) being formed? Why are groups like The Countess Didn't Fight For This! and RadCailini emerging if it isn't to voice the impact on women? Why did Donal O'Shea (probably Ireland's leading endocrinologist) raise questions about the approach being taken by the approach being taken to medicalisation of children by the Tavistock staff the HSE employs? Why were those concerns not minuted by the HSE? Why did the HSE choose to remove the word women from information promoting a women's medical service (CervicalCheck)? No impact on anyone but trans people? I don't think so.

Be very clear, the people of Ireland, the women of Ireland, we were not asked how we felt about Self-ID, we were not asked to point out the pitfalls and we have not been asked how it impacts us.

Amnesty knows fuck all about this. And cares even less.

Amnesty also believe disabled people have a human right to sex. Do Amnesty also believe anyone's right to sex depends on a willing partner? No person has the right to sex because there are 2 persons rights at stake

I don't give money to Amnesty any more.

How they can sit there watching a bloody great breach in safeguarding being cranked wide open and say, 'Nah, s'all fine, stop fussing', is completely beyond me.

Its the attitude of 'Yeah, fuck women: fuck their safety in prison, their privacy in changing rooms, their chance of winning in sports' that pisses me off.

The arrogance is breathtaking.

Wouldn't give AI the steam off my piss. And I was a supporter for years. They can fuck off commenting on Ireland. What were they doing when women were in the fucking laundries? Or having their children taken from them?

m.independent.ie/irish-news/prison-officers-demand-guidelines-on-transgender-inmates-39637102.html

@ThousandsAreSailing

Amnesty also believe disabled people have a human right to sex. Do Amnesty also believe anyone's right to sex depends on a willing partner? No person has the right to sex because there are 2 persons rights at stake

No, they believe disabled men have a human right to sex.

Amnesty is not a humans rights organisation, it's a men's rights organisation.

It broke my heart to stop giving to the US- based Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC). My parents had given them funds for decades, as immigrants to the US, but would not have been au fait with the misogyny they spout today. It’s tough, but arseholes are arseholes and I will not fund them. I look to newer groups like WPUK or LGB Alliance to use that money.

@ShagMeRiggins

SWIW?

Even Rolling Stone can see the problems with Amnesty's prostitution policy... www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/5-reasons-to-be-wary-of-amnestys-prostitution-policy-198762/

Amnesty also believe disabled people have a human right to sex. Do Amnesty also believe anyone's right to sex depends on a willing partner? No person has the right to sex because there are 2 persons rights at stake

No, they believe disabled men have a human right to sex.

Amnesty is not a humans rights organisation, it's a men's rights organisation.

Yep. Self ID is working just fine in Ireland only if you regard the women in Limerick prison as subhuman, and the male prisoners - including such a dangerous mass rapist that when in communal areas with the other prisoners (WTF - in a women's prison?!) he must have two guards with him at all times. Then there's Barbie Kardashian, deemed such a threat to women, the Garda warned the public of that threat... without seeing fit to mention that the 'teenage girl' in question is a young man.

Amnesty support locking vulnerable women in alongside mass rapists and men who say the screams of women as they harm them 'are music to my ears', and call that human rights activism. The words for just what precisely that makes them would probably get me banned. I invite you to fill in the blanks.

That is so incredibly patronising, its just a we know women have concerns but we’re going to disregard them because well they are women, we don’t believe women

I had a regular donation to Amnesty for a couple of decades, decades when I had no money. But will not be giving any more money unless they have a very public change of policy and an apology.

As others have said, I lost all faith in Amnesty International back when they declared that is was perfectly fine to rape a woman as long as you chuck some money at her afterwards. Their stance on this doesn’t surprise me at all.

Send them the evidence, they will ignore it but eventually they will have to own the fact that they knew and they didn’t care. As a human rights organisation.

When did Amnesty stop being about prisoners of conscience? I always assumed that that was its raison d'etre.