Apparently trans people don't have an advantage playing sports.

[Horehound]

As someone is telling me on FB and linked this

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5357259/

I'm sure over all, transmen don't.

I wonder why?

But they're saying transwomen don't

I believe research is ongoing but trans women who have never been through male puberty (so took blockers then transitioned) are not considered to have an advantage but those who have been though male puberty generally do.

Well I can see their point. We all know that if The Rock identified as female tomorrow, she'd be pretty goddamn helpless all of a sudden and weaker than all the women around. It's liking pink skirts and girly stuff that does it.

Scanning through the references in what is supposedly a review article is interesting. 3 or 4 sports science journals, 3 or 4 endocrinology journals, 1 medical paper.

The rest are sports psychology journals, transgender study journals and a huge number of references to the inclusion policies of various sports governing bodies (including quidditch - I leave that on the table without comment).

Oh, and of course Joanna Harper's infamous "I asked 8 of my mates if their performance had dropped off" paper.

Compare that to Ross Tucker's exhaustive research review for world rugby where he looked at 84 papers directly on sporting performance.

Don’t even engage.

It may LOOK like that Oxyiz, but your eyes must be deceiving you. No advantage, definitely not, couldn't possibly be. Meanie.

Even prepubertal girls and boys have different growth curves. It’s impossible to test but very plausible that there is some performance benefit eg from being bigger.

A 15 yr old boy the same height as a woman at her absolute peak still can have a larger lung capacity.

They're still going

Nothing to see here, no advantage at all.

"Introduction
Transgender people are those who experience incongruence between the gender that they were assigned at birth (based on the appearance of their genitals) and their gender identity/experienced gender."

I stopped reading here. If the first sentence of an article has massive flaws, don't waste your time reading the rest.

Of all the literature in this review only one study appears to be relevant and that concluded that transgender women had significantly increased muscle mass 1 year post transition compared to the control group of transgender men pre transition. So against their conclusion. It also stated that transgender women’s hormone levels 1 year post cross sex hormone treatment were post castration level but did not compare it to natal women’s levels.

The rest of the literati appears to be predominantly research on transgender individuals’ participation in sport and is irrelevant to any questions related to fairness. Their conclusion in no way reflects the actual discussion in the article or the reviewed literature. One might even wonder if the authors were biased in some way.

I boxed in the forces.

We did sparring with the men to toughen us up. They hated it as even the lower weight men could hit harder than we could.

No advantage haha funny if it wasn't such a real life issue these days.

Bless their cotton socks.

Moving onto comparisons with menopause?! Fuck off.

Skeletons and gait in men and women are completely different. Men have slightly longer legs and arms than women in relation to body length.

As I said before, if there's no advantage why aren't there loads of transmen competing at higher levels in men's sports?

I believe that there will soon be studies done into the advantages of any one born male regardless of age. It seems that some of the advantages such as muscle type etc are evident even in small children.

It will be an interesting study to read.

I see their bs paper and raise them this. From one of the top medical universities in Europe.

www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/782557v1

I’m sure over all, transmen don't.

And yet any other women taking testosterone are banned from professional sport - why might that be if it has no effect?

@Aesopfable

I’m sure over all, transmen don't.

And yet any other women taking testosterone are banned from professional sport - why might that be if it has no effect?

Is there a limit on how much testosterone a trans man can take and still compete?

Or is the level which a trans man would reach always lower than a man?

This stuff baffles me tbh.

Everyone in the world knows the differences between male and female. Everyone. All mammals do fgs.

Why are so many people working so hard to deny really basic truths?

DH has low testosterone. He could compete as a woman according to the rules.

He's over 6 foot, built like a brick shithouse, used to play rugby, and can bench press 130kg without going to the gym much or anything.

It's silly.

World Rugby's Transgender Guidelines and Summary are worth a read, explaining why It's not possible to balance inclusion, safety and fairness; to quote Ross Tucker All the evidence, even if incomplete, strongly suggests that advantages are retained with welfare & performance implications. Therefore players must compete in sex category

Pdfs downloadable here: playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/gender

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4046310-World-Rugby-Guidelines-out

Inexplicably, English Rugby has taken a different decision and there is a thread about that too.

99% of the population knows this is BS. Human anatomy and physiology is something which can be easily measured. As Cara pointed out above, anyone can cherry-pick references that suits their agenda, it doesn't mean that they are correct.
Why waste your time on Facebook? It's a horrible platform. I quit social media a long time ago and am so much happier for it.