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World Rugby Guidelines out

(116 Posts)
ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 09-Oct-20 17:06:50

www.world.rugby/news/591776/world-rugby-approves-updated-transgender-participation-guidelines

"it was concluded that safety and fairness cannot presently be assured for women competing against transwomen in contact rugby."

"As a result, the new guidelines do not recommend that transwomen play women’s contact rugby on safety grounds at the elite and international level of the game where size, strength, power and speed are crucial for both risk and performance, but do not preclude national unions from flexibility in their application of the guidelines at the community level of the game. Transmen are permitted to participate in men’s contact rugby. "

OP’s posts: |
Gurufloof Fri 09-Oct-20 17:11:43

Wave bye bye to womens community rugby.
Still its something that women are not going to be put at risk in elite and international levels.

CaraDuneRedux Fri 09-Oct-20 17:12:18

but do not preclude national unions from flexibility in their application of the guidelines at the community level of the game.

Oh dear. That's very bad news. Because if anything, the risks are higher the lower down the league structure you go, due to less specialist coaching, and less experienced refereeing.

Also the grass-roots is the feeder for the women's elite players of tomorrow - and if teenage girls today are put off by the transgirl going through male puberty who's taller, faster and significantly stronger than them and can do them serious injury, there won't be an elite player tomorrow.

Not happy with this fence-sitting compromise.

This is an area which has to be an absolute hard no from me - no people who've been through male puberty in any women's sport, at any level.

Toomuchtea Fri 09-Oct-20 17:14:12

That reads as though size, strength, power and speed are not crucial for the community level of the game.

What is then? An ability to do the cryptic crossword?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 09-Oct-20 17:20:13

but do not preclude national unions from flexibility in their application of the guidelines at the community level of the game.

I was a bit hmm at that too, but surely at the community level they will follow the rules too. If the evidence shows that safety is compromised when TW play with women, surely insurance companies will take note of that?

OP’s posts: |
Melroses Fri 09-Oct-20 17:23:29

I looked at my local small town rugby club and they have mens, womens, with very detailed policies for moving from the junior (of which they have many divided by age) to the adult teams for over 18s for girls and over 17s for boys which take into account size and physical development.

They also have touch rugby and mixed touch rugby.

And also wheelchair rugby.

Why is that not good enough.

CaraDuneRedux Fri 09-Oct-20 17:24:15

ItsAllGoingToBeFine

^but do not preclude national unions from flexibility in their application of the guidelines at the community level of the game.^

I was a bit hmm at that too, but surely at the community level they will follow the rules too. If the evidence shows that safety is compromised when TW play with women, surely insurance companies will take note of that?

Unfortunately Rugby Australia and Rugby Canada have made it quite clear that their position is that TWAW. The World Rugby ruling will at least preclude them from fielding TW in their national squads, but at all levels below that I think those countries will adopt a totally "inclusive" (i.e. dangerous for women) approach.

It will be interesting to see what the insurance companies make of this. Because there are going to be a lot of very serious, life-altering injuries.

happydappy2 Fri 09-Oct-20 17:28:17

Its a great ruling. Until you think of the reality of small local clubs not wanting to be seen to be 'mean' in excluding the local trans girl....it doesn't go far enough. No boys in girls sports and no men in womens sports . If the girls don't feel safe training, they'll abandon rugby.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria Fri 09-Oct-20 17:28:31

I would not be happy for my son to play against a transman.

The transman is at risk. If my son tackled them and they sustained a life changing injury then the impact of that on my son would be unthinkable.

So, apart from the sport's responsibility to the trans players to keep them safe, they also have a responsibility to not put my son in a position where he could hurt someone by playing the game.

This is ridiculous.

CaraDuneRedux Fri 09-Oct-20 17:31:41

vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I would not be happy for my son to play against a transman.

The transman is at risk. If my son tackled them and they sustained a life changing injury then the impact of that on my son would be unthinkable.

So, apart from the sport's responsibility to the trans players to keep them safe, they also have a responsibility to not put my son in a position where he could hurt someone by playing the game.

This is ridiculous.

This is also true. It's couched in terms of "it's all okay if the transman signs a waiver" but really it isn't. You're asking the rest of the players either to hold back, or to risk significantly injuring someone.

Cailleach1 Fri 09-Oct-20 17:36:05

The transman is at risk.

Well, if anything happened, I'd hope they sue the hell out of the organisation. Their rules are by design unsafe for females. No disclaimers.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons Fri 09-Oct-20 17:42:27

but do not preclude national unions from flexibility in their application of the guidelines at the community level of the game.

FFS
I hope refs won’t do it - they are responsible for the safety of the players on the field.

And I’m sorry but you can’t consent to injury- transmen shouldn’t be allowed to play with men. And of course doping females shouldn’t be allowed to play with other females. It sucks but that’s life we can’t all get what we want.

I have a great friend who had his neck broken when a scrum collapsed - he’s built like a brick shit house & is ok now but banned from any & all contact sports.

FindTheTruth Fri 09-Oct-20 17:43:17

Interesting visualisations summarising the physiological evidence and FAQs twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1314596707041239044

FindTheTruth Fri 09-Oct-20 17:47:00

Is it true that Australia and Canada plan to ignore these guidelines?

Kit19 Fri 09-Oct-20 17:48:36

Hmmm kicking the risk downwards.....

I can’t see referees being happy with this at all

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 09-Oct-20 17:49:54

There's lots more reading material here

playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/gender

Including FAQs on things like validity when athletes weren't looked at, but basketball players are tall etc

OP’s posts: |
GrouchyKiwi Fri 09-Oct-20 17:51:58

CaraDuneRedux

*but do not preclude national unions from flexibility in their application of the guidelines at the community level of the game.*

Oh dear. That's very bad news. Because if anything, the risks are higher the lower down the league structure you go, due to less specialist coaching, and less experienced refereeing.

Also the grass-roots is the feeder for the women's elite players of tomorrow - and if teenage girls today are put off by the transgirl going through male puberty who's taller, faster and significantly stronger than them and can do them serious injury, there won't be an elite player tomorrow.

Not happy with this fence-sitting compromise.

This is an area which has to be an absolute hard no from me - no people who've been through male puberty in any women's sport, at any level.

Yes, all of this.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Fri 09-Oct-20 17:53:47

Hmm, the actual document on transgender guidelines is rather more firm...

I can't c&p on phone but "transgender women may not currently play women's rugby"

OP’s posts: |
GrouchyKiwi Fri 09-Oct-20 17:59:27

The exact wording is:

"Transgender women who transitioned post-puberty and have experienced the biological effects of testosterone during puberty and adolescence cannot currently play women's rugby."

Which is indeed much firmer than the article makes out.

zanahoria Fri 09-Oct-20 18:01:42

I think this is excellent news as it has made the scientific point that transwomen playing womens rugby is unfair.

I am not too worried about what they are saying about community rugby, it could well be that they simply think that is not their jurisdiction. It is now up to those who do have that power to take on board the science. It will be very difficult for them to ignore it and all the GC supporters in those countries now have powerful evidence fo back their case. Possibly most important of all is that insurance companies will take on the science and may not insure teams that have transwomen playing.

Gncq Fri 09-Oct-20 18:06:19

But at community level there's flexibility in applying any or all of the guidelines, not just this one. They presumably have words to that effect about all recommendations.

FindTheTruth Fri 09-Oct-20 18:06:21

Seems like a step in the right direction and a template for other sports to follow. Evidence based.

zanahoria Fri 09-Oct-20 18:09:37

but would community rugby want to be flexible now this study has outlined the science? They will be culpable for serious injuries and cannot say they were not warned. I would be amazed if people running community clubs would want to take those risks.

Cailleach1 Fri 09-Oct-20 18:10:19

If there is flexibility and the club chooses to endanger female players, I imagine that would make them even more culpable if there are serious injuries.

Cailleach1 Fri 09-Oct-20 18:10:54

snap.

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