Apparently trans people don't have an advantage playing sports.

[Horehound]

As someone is telling me on FB and linked this

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5357259/

web.law.duke.edu/sports/sex-sport/comparative-athletic-performance/

Most average high school boys can beat elite women athletes. It's just stupid to pretend that gender identity or hormones completely wipes out physical differences

Is there a limit on how much testosterone a trans man can take and still compete?

Or is the level which a trans man would reach always lower than a man?

Yes, it's ways lower, in that they won't have the same advantages as the equivalent man.

This is because once a woman has been through female puberty, the effects that testosterone can have will be limited - you're packing muscle on to a female frame, with female-sized heart and lungs, female bone density, structure, etc.

It's why the East German women could beat all other women, but not the men.

The only place transmen could potentially compete with men is in the sports with a very extreme (low) weight class (eg 50kg or 55kg), because then the men don't have the benefits of lots more strength and size.

When you have schoolboy soccer teams beating womens national teams, that's all you need to know.
If there are no advantages where are all the transmen beating the normal men?

Dont Transmen risk osteoporosis with their hormones ?

As will any child taking blockers?

Not going to create many athletes like that.

Why are there so many men who just cant stand the word no?

"Women's sport is about celebrating extraordinary women, not mediocre men".

@SapphosRock

I believe research is ongoing but trans women who have never been through male puberty (so took blockers then transitioned) are not considered to have an advantage but those who have been though male puberty generally do.

I've wondered about this.

I can't help thinking that a person who was put on puberty blockers as a child, cross-sex hormones as a teenager and then subject to fairly extensive surgery would be fairly unlikely to be in top physical shape. I could be wrong, but I can't imagine that this takes anything but a negative toll on a person's physical health. Is it likely that such a person would even be able to compete at the top level?

The only place transmen could potentially compete with men is in the sports with a very extreme (low) weight class (eg 50kg or 55kg), because then the men don't have the benefits of lots more strength and size.

And even there due to differences in types of muscles (eg fast twitch etc), and lengths of bones etc, there will be a male puberty advantage.

Just reading the abstract of the paper, OP, why do the Conclusions not reflect anything reported in the Results?

The only place transmen could potentially compete with men is in the sports with a very extreme (low) weight class (eg 50kg or 55kg), because then the men don't have the benefits of lots more strength and size

As a young teen, I used to ride out the horses at a relative's racing yard. I doubt anyone weighed much more than 8 stone, but the "Lads" were still stronger than the "Lasses", because they were male.

@NiceGerbil

This stuff baffles me tbh.

Everyone in the world knows the differences between male and female. Everyone. All mammals do fgs.

Why are so many people working so hard to deny really basic truths?

DH has low testosterone. He could compete as a woman according to the rules.

He's over 6 foot, built like a brick shithouse, used to play rugby, and can bench press 130kg without going to the gym much or anything.

It's silly.

You can't mention biology anymore, for risking offending someone. You certainly can't mention biology on a website meant for women to discuss women's issues. There is no 'basic truth' anymore, just the 'truth' you have to accept, or be labelled as some kind of bigot. I hope they are arresting every science and biology teacher in this country for spreading hatred and mis-truths.

You certainly can't mention biology on a website meant for women to discuss women's issues.
There is no 'basic truth' anymore, just the 'truth' you have to accept, or be labelled as some kind of bigot.

Yup. Two threads went pfft yesterday (one of them completely without trace) for discussing the fact that it was biologically impossible for people with male reproductive biology to suffer from medical conditions specific to female reproductive biology. Apparently we are not allowed to talk about this any more.

"The only place transmen could potentially compete with men is in the sports with a very extreme (low) weight class (eg 50kg or 55kg), because then the men don't have the benefits of lots more strength and size."

I would like to see any woman cyclist, any weight, take on 58kg Nairo Quintana.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nairo_Quintana

Imagine using the fact women go through biological changes during menopause as a defence for allowing women and girls to be put at risk by people competing against them with the effects of male puberty on their side. Fucking hell!