The strategy of relinquishing the word "woman"

[GratedExposure]

This is something I wonder about in a number of contexts (I'm not advocating it, just wondering): is anyone thinking that the best strategy here is to leave the word, and begin to label certain awards/events as "natal female" awards/events?

I know there are many arguments against this (first, why should we be having to start fighting anew for things which should never have been taken?). But at what point do we walk away and start again? The most obvious example is sport, because if there were "wom*n's" events (increasingly colonised by males) and "natal female" events, most of the strong female athletes would surely opt into the latter?

Are any organisations working towards this?

It's basically the same as the third space idea, but we'd be having to be the ones moving to a third space (wrong, but maybe better than the alternative...)...?

Is this crazy talk?

16% deletion rate.
Is this a record?

We know what woman means.
Adult human female.

I'm a woman. No one has consulted me about changing the name of the sex class to which I belong.

Do a reversal on this thread and ask if relinquishing the word 'man' might be a good strategy, and you realise how very sexist it is that we must have a discussion which men do not have to have at all.

Why does this thread look like Swiss cheese @MNHQ? For people observing that the word woman doesn't include men?

Yes, why is this topic so controversial, @MNHQ? Are you also of the opinion that women should #Be Kind while allowing men to rewrite biology and deny women’s safety, language and lived reality?

Sex is a protected characteristic

My first deletion on MN ever! No email explaining what rule I apparently broke, though. I've been here for ages and said basically the same thing many times before. But veterans of pissing off Big Brother, what is the procedure here, do the mods not have to tell you what rule you broke?

I was deleted for mentioning a well known out trans woman and that she described herself as a cis female.
I even used 'herself' to talk about this person.

I then suggested there wasn't a word we could use that they wouldn't want to use, and I've pretty much typed exactly what I typed earlier because I genuinely haven't broken any rules unless we're now not allowed to repeat what any famous trans people have said on twitter? Or name people?!

@mnhq please would you be able to let me know how this broke rules? Thanks

Try reporting your deleted message to ask directly. I'm pretty sure @MNHQ does not notify them to queries made in a post.

The state of this thread. Nearly every comment has been censored due to woke capture. Pathetic and sad.

No. Total slippery slope. Trans activists will never stop and will just keep demanding whatever term accurately describes women. They don't care which word, they care about being called whatever women are called. Soon it will be "trans women are cis women." We can't give an inch and MUST stop being kind.

Thank you Errol that's a good idea.

We can't give an inch and MUST stop being kind.

Or rather, we must direct our kindness primarily to the women and children who need it.

I know that I didn't

b) mention any specific person at all
c) use any banned words

To be honest if either of my 2 posts would be deleted I would have thought it would be the other one. I thought it was pretty mild.

I also remember the deckchair post and I am seriously baffled as to why on earth that would be deleted.

The moderators have certainly been ramping it up today, seemingly without rhyme or reason.

Some people will always want what other people have. Even if the thing that is had changes.

The THIN END OF THE WEDGE, my high school French teacher always warned. Every time I see the poster here with that username, I think of Madame and the lifelong lessons she taught us...

As women we will be continuing to use the word women. The word belongs to us. It is not up to us to make more room for born men

Blimey, the start of this thread looks odd now. If I hadn't read the messages at the time, I would assume that a lot of highly offensive comments were made, so many deletions.

No. Hold the line sisters.

@SaucyHorse

I know that I didn't

b) mention any specific person at all
c) use any banned words

To be honest if either of my 2 posts would be deleted I would have thought it would be the other one. I thought it was pretty mild.

I also remember the deckchair post and I am seriously baffled as to why on earth that would be deleted.

The moderators have certainly been ramping it up today, seemingly without rhyme or reason.

Unfortunately, in responding to MiladyRenata, first one, then several posters rendered the username into an abbreviated form that is easily recognised as unkind.

It may have been, it certainly often is on forums and message boards, no more than friendly banter. It might even have been one jokester only and others copying the abbreviated name from that poster without going back to check, but it most definitely falls afoul of the rule that we don't go out of our way to be unkind to one another.

Changing the username a poster has given themselves from a term of respect for women to a term for a boy or a young man, especially for a poster who has previously disclosed their trans identity and their desire to be seen as a woman, especially in a thread involving sex and gender, is not (in my view) in the spirit of the site. I'm sure it wasn't meant to be hurtful, but in the interest of keeping valuable contributions safe from being deleted, please consider whether this is one joke we might do without.

Oh, that makes sense, CharlieParley. I must admit, I saw that nickname and thought it was unnecessarily provocative.

The points made on this board are strong enough to stand on their own. Taking an unnecessary dig at a username detracts from the arguments, I think.

Anyway, no, we should not relinquish the word 'woman'. It doesn't matter what word we use, it will immediately be appropriated and not just by the TRAs.

I wrote to Rugby Football Union a few days ago regarding the issue of biological males playing for women's teams. I got a reply back talking about 'transgender females'. The reply was referring to sperm-producing, XY-chromosomed people of the male sex. There is no way that a sporting body should use the word 'female' to refer to such a person.

Furthermore, Kirsty Blackman, SNP MP wrote on Twitter on 9th June: 'For the avoidance of doubt, trans women are also adult human females.'

India Willoughby, who is a biological male apparently identifies as a "cis woman".

Please. Whatever we give it will never be enough. 'Woman', 'Girl', 'Female' - these will all become vague synonyms for 'feminine' unless we actively guard against it. I appreciate this may sound entirely overblown, but I refer you back to the RFU, Kristy Blackman and India Willoughby.

Sorry, that should read 'Kirsty Blackman', not 'Kristy'.

I was deleted for saying that I used to be kinder but now I am not. Because I noticed that the annexing of the word female was already well underway.

I truly despair a world where the truth is shaped by those too fragile to admit reality.

I am truly shocked by the deletions on the first page!

I had not twigged when reading them they were at risk of deletion.

I find it rather mysterious as to which posts remain and which have gone.

@Winesalot

I was deleted for saying that I used to be kinder but now I am not. Because I noticed that the annexing of the word female was already well underway.

I truly despair a world where the truth is shaped by those too fragile to admit reality.

And ‘kindness’ has become gendered, and ultimately inimical to women’s interest and rights.

The examples Edge cites are ludicrous, and misleading. I'm sure I've seen 'transgender female' used elsewhere accurately referring to transmen.

Is this the follow-up to the failure of #nodebate? Render all language pertaining to sex muddled and useless for the purpose of communication?