The strategy of relinquishing the word "woman"

[GratedExposure]

This is something I wonder about in a number of contexts (I'm not advocating it, just wondering): is anyone thinking that the best strategy here is to leave the word, and begin to label certain awards/events as "natal female" awards/events?

I know there are many arguments against this (first, why should we be having to start fighting anew for things which should never have been taken?). But at what point do we walk away and start again? The most obvious example is sport, because if there were "wom*n's" events (increasingly colonised by males) and "natal female" events, most of the strong female athletes would surely opt into the latter?

Are any organisations working towards this?

It's basically the same as the third space idea, but we'd be having to be the ones moving to a third space (wrong, but maybe better than the alternative...)...?

Is this crazy talk?

I loved your deckchair analogy, EvenSupposing.
Perhaps the problem was that you used an adjective implying a lack of suitably feminine shaving standards?

They can have "c*s" though, that's not being used.

@VortexofBloggery

They can have "c*s" though, that's not being used.

Yes it is, trying to redefine and misuse that as well doesn't serve people who want to use it properly.

@ErrolTheDragon

I loved your deckchair analogy, EvenSupposing. Perhaps the problem was that you used an adjective implying a lack of suitably feminine shaving standards?

Yes. But in the analogy the bloke was just a bloke not any...other kind of...entity.

Blimey so many deletions.

Avoiding.

Why avoid the remaining posts?

Risk of sanity?

Scared of deckchairs?

@CharlieParley, that's a very helpful post - thank you. As a relative newcomer to many aspects of this, I appreciate it.

What were the deletions for?

@JonasKahnwald

What were the deletions for?

I don't know. Maybe some were using non-approved but less rohypnol-like alternatives to TW?

I saw the first posts at the time Jonas and I've still no idea.
As far as I remember, they used the approved terminology. I nearly quoted one of them.

when discussing subjects where sex is relevant, the words 'woman' and 'man' are both completely adequate, and easily understood by all english speaking people (even those who pretend to believe that a 'woman is a shifting constellation of sexist stereotypes', or summat)

of course there are some people who don't really want people to be able to easily understand the matter under discussion innit?

Feminine or masculine presenting transgender person?

Just to reiterate, because plenty of times TRAs will say "But no one is trying to confuse sex and gender, it's all in your head you crazy terfs."

@JonasKahnwald

What were the deletions for?

I guess ultimately they are pour encourager les autres?

@BrassicaRabbit

Whilst on the one hand, the word female is increasingly used by people who are not female to describe themselves, on the other, use of the word female can get a woman banned from twitter (for tweeting "only females get cervical cancer"). It's almost as if the people pushing this assault on language and blurring of boundaries are doing so for a reason that's actually got bugger all to do with the rights of trans people.

Conspiracy theory number 1 in my life: I suspect trans rights is a vehicle for removing the age of consent, for the removal of any legal reference to rape, in preparation for returning to the times when women were not uppity andnot allowed to vote and not allowed to own goods and chattels except through the kindness of their husbands, fathers, brothers, whatever man is there to ensure she isn't silly with it.

The deletions on this thread are unreal. I don’t post a lot on this forum, I read occasionally. I’ve never seen a thread so pepper potted with bullet holes. I had assumed that by the time I reached the end of the thread MNHQ would have posted some kind of response / warning / clarification about what they expect from posters. Bit shocked that hasn’t happened tbh. Hard to know what to make of this - it leaves a rather uncomfortable impression of some kind of superior force which swoops in and Swiss-cheeses a thread and bogs off again. Would be interested to know what the deleted posts said because without them this thread is a bit pointless tbh. The general gist is ‘hell no’, anyway, I gathered that much. (And rightly so - nobody should aspire to the Vichy role ...)

This is a joke, I assume. I'm a woman and proud of it.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

when discussing subjects where sex is relevant, the words 'woman' and 'man' are both completely adequate, and easily understood by all english speaking people (even those who pretend to believe that a 'woman is a shifting constellation of sexist stereotypes', or summat)

of course there are some people who don't really want people to be able to easily understand the matter under discussion innit?

Agreed. From female we get the adult and the child forms: woman / girl. Making these more convoluted does a number on language translations.

I don't believe an English language governing body (imagine the fights as to who gets top authority, the UK Times, NYTimes, AP, Chicago Manual of Style, Cape Times, Belfast...Merriam Webster?? They might call it the English Major Wars) has done a poll of half the English speakers.

Did half of all English speakers agree to this change of the word that once defined them for centuries? Will there be a vote on it if the polls are too close? Perhaps an FAQ is in order to help explain it all. What about second language English speakers? Do they get 1/2 a vote?

It seems to me that in Anglo Saxon - Wifman meant woman and WerMan meant man. During those times women could own property etc. ( then dismissed by those pesky Normans ) In any rate - woman is a perfectly good word for an Adult human female. Job done. Anyone else wants a word for a woman who used to be a man - your job to think of it - don't tell me I need to be cis or natal or whatever. I never thought this would bother me - but I am increasing so.

so no . do not give up the word woman because a small amount of people want to appropriate it. Just my opinion

@SuzieCarmichael

The deletions on this thread are unreal. I don’t post a lot on this forum, I read occasionally. I’ve never seen a thread so pepper potted with bullet holes. I had assumed that by the time I reached the end of the thread MNHQ would have posted some kind of response / warning / clarification about what they expect from posters. Bit shocked that hasn’t happened tbh. Hard to know what to make of this - it leaves a rather uncomfortable impression of some kind of superior force which swoops in and Swiss-cheeses a thread and bogs off again. Would be interested to know what the deleted posts said because without them this thread is a bit pointless tbh. The general gist is ‘hell no’, anyway, I gathered that much. (And rightly so - nobody should aspire to the Vichy role ...)

They can delete as much as they want, the thoughts in our heads remain. Reality remains.

Yeah nah.