Jk Rowling and trans issues... talk to me!

[bunters]

Ok mumsnet, please talk to me. I’ve noticed that the feminist section of mumsnet seems disproportionately preoccupied with trans issues and I’d like to understand it. I opened the feminism chat today and topic after topic related to trans this, gender that

It is an indisputable fact that women suffer horrific domestic violence in this country (and worldwide), at the hands of men. Women are regularly beaten, raped, controlled, murdered and otherwise abused by men every single day. It’s so standard that it barely makes news when it happens, unless the crime is truly shocking.

This whole trans hysteria feels to me like if the government were to start a huge campaign to raise awareness of the dangers of choking on peanuts, while ignoring the huge damage caused by alcohol and tobacco.

JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women, in the name of women’s rights. With her money and popularity she could have done any number of things to help women in a huge way. What has this achieved, other than pitting feminists against each other? Even if you believe she has a point, surely you can see that whatever ‘danger’ trans people pose to women is minuscule compared to the very real danger men openly pose to women every day?

We all know that men have felt entitled to take what they want when they want for centuries, and they don’t need to dress as a woman to do it. The women gang raped to death (can you even imagine the horror) in India weren’t attacked by men in dresses. I’m despairing of the fact that attention has been diverted from these horrors in such an extreme way.

When I look at my beautiful, tiny daughter I don’t worry about some trans person hurting her, I worry about the very likely situation when a man hurts her. In fact, I’d worry more that she’ll be trans and be hurt by someone before I’d worry about a trans person hurting her. When I walk alone at night somewhere, my mind isn’t imagining trans people waiting in dark doorways to rape me, it’s men. Men being bloody men.

If we accept that men don’t need to be trans and gain access to women’s spaces to hurt us, and we accept that trans people are way more likely to attempt suicide than the rest of the population (and so really are in need of help and protection as much as women), why do trans issues continue to cause such anger?

And if you do feel justified, what tangible thing are you doing to help women, besides moaning on mumsnet and signing petitions?

Late to the party as ever..

OP, I've dated two men who now identify as 'trans women' specifically because the trans rights ideology means that they can do what they like unquestioned. They live full time 'as men' (as if it should mean anything, a dress does not a woman make). Both have a fetish which is sated more through the participation of others, usually unwilling and without consent.

One would rarely dress, unless there was an sexual element, but showed up to court for GBH 'as a woman' as "they wouldn't know where to put me and if they put me in the male ward I would be able to play the transphobia card".

The other, I was 15 and it later transpired he was 28. He said "the hello kitty stuff is good for picking up fucked up young goth girls because it's non threatening". I met him in the ladies after he asked to borrow my lipstick and I was a strong defender of 'outsiders'.

JKR didn't 'start a war' she wrote a blog post explaining how the rape & death threats she received after accidentally liking the wrong post made her realise that something is amiss. The abuse she received sealed her point. The blog post was never about transgender people, they merely provided the context.

@Leafygreen88

Late to the party as ever..

OP, I've dated two men who now identify as 'trans women' specifically because the trans rights ideology means that they can do what they like unquestioned. They live full time 'as men' (as if it should mean anything, a dress does not a woman make). Both have a fetish which is sated more through the participation of others, usually unwilling and without consent.

One would rarely dress, unless there was an sexual element, but showed up to court for GBH 'as a woman' as "they wouldn't know where to put me and if they put me in the male ward I would be able to play the transphobia card".

The other, I was 15 and it later transpired he was 28. He said "the hello kitty stuff is good for picking up fucked up young goth girls because it's non threatening". I met him in the ladies after he asked to borrow my lipstick and I was a strong defender of 'outsiders'.

JKR didn't 'start a war' she wrote a blog post explaining how the rape & death threats she received after accidentally liking the wrong post made her realise that something is amiss. The abuse she received sealed her point. The blog post was never about transgender people, they merely provided the context.

Thanks for your insight. It is very informative.

I can't imagine what it must be like to have your very existence as a trans person debated.

This comes up a fair bit on here, I don't understand it at all, because not one person is denying that transpeople exist. They exist of course. As people who are trans.

Never have understood how angry some people get when you refer to transwomen as transwomen instead of women. Even though really, calling them women is erasing the trans part, so in my mind, thats actually potentially transphobic as it kind of makes out 'trans' is some thing of shame that should not be uttered.

Second bits just random musings, not to do with the quoted bit.

Mind, I guess with the second bit..saying TWAW is actually going down the road of 'transpeople do not exist' too. Its closer to denying trans peoples existance than calling a transwoman a transwoman is.

because not one person is denying that transpeople exist. They exist of course. As people who are trans

Oh I don’t know, Julia Long says there’s no such thing as a trans woman.

They live full time 'as men'

Not very representative of trans women who have actually properly transitioned then. In fact, men who sometimes dress as women. Not candidates for a GRC?

What about 2 apples as representative of 2 horses, I mean these apples can be horses on the days you say they are. Shall we get our apples to run in the Cheltenham Cup? Giddy-up.

I think you know what she means by that. Obviously we here on FWR all know that a group of people exist who believe they are the opposite sex. But we don't necessarily share that belief.

Not very representative of trans women who have actually properly transitioned then.

Why? And how do you personally define "properly transitioning"?

@Moonbasealpha

because not one person is denying that transpeople exist. They exist of course. As people who are trans

Oh I don’t know, Julia Long says there’s no such thing as a trans woman.

Take that up with Julia Long. She's not identified herself on this thread.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Not very representative of trans women who have actually properly transitioned then.

Why? And how do you personally define "properly transitioning"?

No answer to that? How surprising.

Is Pip Bunce not properly trans then? Better give back those women's awards in that case.

Not very representative of trans women who have actually properly transitioned then. In fact, men who sometimes dress as women. Not candidates for a GRC?
It is not clear what you mean by transitioned properly but you do realise that the vast majority of male bodied transgender people make no physical or medical changes yet identify as trans?
Who arbitrates on this? We’ve been told that anyone who says they are trans, is. Do you have a different take on this?

"Properly transitioned"

How disgustingly transphobic of you. A trans person is who they say they are. Bigot.

@Pertella

"Properly transitioned"

How disgustingly transphobic of you. A trans person is who they say they are. Bigot.

As a woman, having a one sided conversation with a TW who wants to be just like me but is missing the fundamental experience of growing up female, and who will pretty much always over-ride my experiences and bring it all back down to their superior struggle, plus the walking on eggshells for fear of being labelled unintentionally transphobic I do feel something is being taken away from me - the right to free speech and the sharing of opinions without being condemned for it and punished by people claiming to be my friends and allies when in some regards they never can be - because biology.

This, a thousand times. There's a bond of shared experience between ALL women, worldwide: we understand each other on a very basic level, whether we're English, Indian, Chinese, South American etc. The TW who think that being a woman is all about presentation high heels and lipstick and looking sexy and "being kind and inclusive to us TW" really have no idea. No idea at all. And yet they want to call themselves women. It's ludicrous.

@gardenbird48

Not very representative of trans women who have actually properly transitioned then. In fact, men who sometimes dress as women. Not candidates for a GRC? It is not clear what you mean by transitioned properly but you do realise that the vast majority of male bodied transgender people make no physical or medical changes yet identify as trans? Who arbitrates on this? We’ve been told that anyone who says they are trans, is. Do you have a different take on this?

Then they have no business being in women’s spaces. The GR Panel arbitrates after a medical diagnosis. A lot do make medical changes.

A lot do make medical changes.

Really? What I've learned, mostly from MN, is that only a tiny minority do.

@Pertella

"Properly transitioned"

How disgustingly transphobic of you. A trans person is who they say they are. Bigot.

Let's not stray too far from the fact that Rowling's blog post was in part written as a response to events which occurred after a woman committed the heinous act of misgendering Gregor Murray on Twitter.. bigot.

@Cailleach1

I don’t worry about some trans person hurting her, I worry about the very likely situation when a man hurts her.

Interesting, so when someone trans has a 'gender' identity they turn into a fluffy cloud and lose the ability to ever hurt anyone.

Aren't there statistics which show, that proportionately, a higher percentage of Trans people with biologically male bodies in prison are incarcerated for sexual crimes than people in prison with biologically male bodies who don't identify as Trans.

I'm sure you must be right and that the trauma of rape by some cohorts of biological males is significantly lessened when they don't identify as men.

You say that "men don't need to be Trans to gain access to women's spaces to hurt women." Do you think easier access would have no effect? Should access be given for all men then if you think there is no increased safety attached to there being women only spaces. Certainly if you think that "men don't need to be Trans to gain Access to women's spaces to hurt women?"

What about men of a certain age, or impotent men, or men with disabilities? Is there any reason for them to not be allowed in women's spaces. They would be less of a threat to women that fully functional biological males, in their prime. Or as you mention suicide, maybe men with suicidal thoughts? You think men with higher suicidal tendencies are less threatening to women.

This

Previously, after punching his wife, he attempted to DARVO agencies by convincing them that the abuse was committed by his wife and was deceptive enough to be admitted to a woman's domestic violence refuge as part of a ploy to gain custody of their children.

FFS

For me this starts with the fact that a woman is a human female and a man is a human male. Truth and language are essential

A trans person is who they say they are.

If they say they are Joan Collins, Donald Duck or Spartacus, what then? Likewise if they are not physically female with XX chromosomes, they are not women, they are transwomen.

As there isn't an index of words to refer to which will get you deleted and a strike, I thought I'd warn people of one word I was deleted and given a strike for. Possibly (just surmising) after some very kind person, very secure in the credibility of their convictions, reported it. I won't write it out as that is banned, so just to give a clue, so nobody offends anyone with that hateful word again.

Here's the puzzle; c*, *l, u, **t. I haven't written the word again, but it is obviously a pitfall, so I wouldn't want people to remain ignorant of that pitfall.

I thought it had a particular meaning as to the widespread acceptance of a belief, but now know that is needs to be scratched from the dictionary, because it is a verboten word. I now also know it is offensive to those of all religions, beliefs and ideologies. Which are all equally worthy and sacred.

So to Jack Jones and adherents (or all their surviving relatives), on foot of my re-education, I recognise that the religious or ideological practices at Jonestown, are due the exact same respect and value of all world ideologies and religions. I do apologise for using that word. Looking it up, I see that Jack Jones received humanitarian awards and plaudits while he was the charismatic leader of such a lauded religion, so others at the time saw his religious movement was certainly not that c word.

Some naughty people afterwards were obviously just haters, with their revisionism. And use of the c word. No not that one. That one is just fine as it hates exclusively on women. That is not banned.

Correction: Jim Jones, not Jack Jones. I do apologise and hope I have not offended anyone by making a mistake and writing Jack instead of Jim.

@Moonbasealpha

because not one person is denying that transpeople exist. They exist of course. As people who are trans

Oh I don’t know, Julia Long says there’s no such thing as a trans woman.

Does she. I didn't know that.

If she actually said transwomen don't exist, then thats really weird given a lot of her campaigning

Or, was it actually more along the 'noone is born in the wrong body' line? As thats not quite the same thing.

Anyone can look around them and see transpeople. It would be like denying trees exist or something. Whether you agree with their reasoning, or anything like that is not the point, people who think they are trans clearly exist. So yeah, I find it weird if Long flat out denied this.

Leafy wrote quite an important post. It's a shame it was deleted. I think it was due to the use of the word troll. I think if she reposted without that word and being careful not to generalise it would be ok.