Index for censorship plans for dialogue on trans issue

[Imnobody4]

www.indexoncensorship.org/2020/10/we-need-to-end-the-abuse-around-discussions-of-feminism-and-trans-rights/
We need to end the abuse around discussions of feminism and trans rights

09 Oct 2020

BY RUTH SMEETH

Free speech is difficult. It should be difficult. After all it protects our right to say things contrary to popular opinion. It protects the minority view. It facilitates debate. It provides the legal framework for protest. It allows people to tell their own stories. Most importantly it moves society on.

It’s why we so desperately need to protect our right to free speech, to cherish it and fight for everybody to be able to use it.

Index was founded to do just that. To cherish the concept of free speech. To expose repressive regimes who were censoring their citizenry and, when necessary, stand up against restrictive practices in our own countries. And for the last 50 years that’s exactly what we’ve done.

What we weren’t established to do was to pick a side on any individual issue that is currently being debated in society. It will surprise none of you that I have quite strong personal opinions on most issues and so does every member of our team, but Index’s job is solely to make sure that other people’s voices can and should be heard if they are being silenced. In the words of Stephen Spender, one of our co-founders, to be a voice for the persecuted.

Which brings me to the current discourse on gender and trans rights. I think we can all agree that this has become increasingly toxic. There is limited constructive dialogue, a huge amount of hate and little meeting in the middle ground to discuss practical ways to come together. Far too many exchanges are now less about the issues themselves, and more about whose side you are on – or even worse, about who has the right to participate in the conversation. The discussion has now switched from one embracing free speech to one of informal censorship.

When we talk about a chilling effect in the public space it is embodied by this issue. Some are genuinely scared to engage in any of the issues for fear of abuse. Members of the trans community, who face daily intimidation and persecution, are rarely being heard at all, as others silence them by claiming to speak for them. This is helping no one.

Index will be launching a new work stream in 2021 to build spaces for dialogue on this subject and others so that people can come together to air issues and find constructive ways forward. But in the interim I want to make it clear what our position is.

All women, whether a successful novelist like JK Rowling or a struggling blogger expressing their gender identity, have a right to their opinions and a right to have those opinions heard.

Death threats, online bullying and attempts to undermine people’s careers are unacceptable. We stand against this censorship. We stand in solidarity with the targets of this abuse and we will fight for their right to be heard.

Trans people face daily persecution and are subject to some of the most appalling abuse in society. Their voices, apart from a few limited exceptions, are not being heard. They have stories to tell but they are being largely censored. We stand in solidarity with them and we will ensure they too have a platform.

These positions aren’t contradictory and they shouldn’t be controversial in the UK in the twenty-first century. As ever Index does and will always stand against censorship.

Quotation from the OP - "Trans people face daily persecution and are subject to some of the most appalling abuse in society."

A current problem is that "misgendering" swamps and distorts the reporting of the "persecution" and "most appalling abuse" experienced by transgender people.

More needs to be done by government to collect and publicise statistics such as:

How many individuals, employers and government departments deny that transgender people are transgender?

How many death threats against transgender people occur per year?

How many transgender people are raped per year?

How many transgender people are murdered by their partner or ex-partner?

How many transgender people are paid less than their colleagues for equal work, because they are transgender?

How many transgender people loose their job when they tell their employer that they are pregnant?

How many transgender people are "no platformed" e.g. in public debates, in the media, in academia, in the arts and on social media?

How many transgender support groups, transgender sports groups and transgender social groups are taken over by people who are not transgender?

I think such statistics would raise awareness of the true extent of abuse against transgender people. The facts would liberate transgender people from having to believe myths about the extent of their oppression and it may end the distortion caused by "misgendering" that currently masks the true levels of serious abuse. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

So they did Manderley - in terms of actions and their public stance they do seem to be honorable if uninformed. In the current context that's progress. A bit of that from the Labour Party (SNP, Greens, Lib Dems, EHRC, GEO, Amnesty, NSPCC, UN Women et al) wouldn't go amiss.

And we've opened the wine now so will remain resolutely positive until midnight at least.

Ruth who organised witch hunts in the Labour Party , that Ruth ?

I thought she was one of the Jewish women Labour MPs hounded by the antisemitism under Corbyn and lost her seat at the last election?

If so - she ought through bitter experience to have a good idea on the gaslighting of the left.

Disappointed by the statement for reasons PPs have pointed out, but if they are helping MF and FC - I will chose to be hopeful.

I thought she was one of the Jewish women Labour MPs hounded by the antisemitism under Corbyn and lost her seat at the last election?

she was- i think lots of corbyn fans blame her for not keeping quiet about it.

@SebastianTheCrab

Trans people WOMEN face daily persecution and are subject to some of the most appalling abuse in society. Their voices, apart from a few limited exceptions, are not being heard. They have stories to tell but they are being largely censored.

THIS THIS

That second last paragraph reads to me as nothing but polite lip service. The way we have to politely ignore trans people's sex, we also have to politely pretend they're the most oppressed ever blah blah etc. I know you'd hope that an anti-censorship charity would be able to speak the truth but the truth is that this climate, everyone has to be strategic in how they speak, and they're a small left-wing charity.

It's bollocks of course. Trans people's stories aren't being censored. If anything they are being extremely heavily hyped in the media out of all proportion to their interestingness, as a quick perusal of anything in the "non-binary thinkpiece" genre will indicate. There's no question that trans people have a platform.

But I don't think it matters too much that that paragraph is bollocks. I think when you read the final paragraph it's quite clear that the lip service paragraph was written to counterbalance the one above it and then they chickened out of saying exactly who is making the death threats and who is doing the online bullying.

Hmm. It does come across as they have 'picked a side'..however I read this differently to how a lot of others seem to.

The focus on transpeople being silenced I take to mean by TRAs. All the bits about transpeople not being heard, I take it to mean because TRAs are shouting them down, hence 'ordinary transpeople' are not heard. I may be wrong though. But thats how it comes across to me. Even with that said though it seems a bit weighted, but, I will remain openminded about this for now, and hopeful.

Skim reading the thread, I would sya 'genuine transpeople' are whats known as old school transsexuals. While transsexual women are still male, there is a massive difference in general attitudes, and wants, and even behaviours between them and recently emerged MRA type TRA/'transgender'.

I think all the "good" work IoC did was back when Jolie Ginsberg was in charge. I bet their intervention in Maya's case was suggested back then too. (If they stand in Court for Maya's ET Appeal and say "oh I'm not saying we agree with her offensive views" then I will be mad )

Anyway. Hopefully they are taking the "tru-trans" angle when they complain about trans voices not being heard. I'm okay with that, eg Kristin, Fionne, etc who all are very clear they haven't changed sex.

I think all the "good" work IoC did was back when Jolie Ginsberg was in charge. I bet their intervention in Maya's case was suggested back then too.

I can't imagine they've completely reversed position because of a change in CEO. Opposing censorship is their reason for existing.

Trans people face daily persecution and are subject to some of the most appalling abuse in society.

We keep being told this but I’ve never seen any evidence for this, except in Latin America, where women are still even more abused. About 100 women are killed every year in the UK, compared with I think one transwoman?

Their voices, apart from a few limited exceptions, are not being heard . Listen to Twitter — they are deafening.

It's important that they are neutral. If someone was sacked for their belief and speech that twaw & tmam then ioc should support them too.

I have no trouble believing that GNC men get a shit time.

But it's not for the same reason women do.

And to not acknowledge all the shit women and girls get is pretty rubbish.

We keep being told this but I’ve never seen any evidence for this, except in Latin America,

It is only considered true in Latin America because people ignore the context of phenomenally high murder rates. If a man identified as a transwoman in Brazil then his risk of murder (as a member of that group ) is an order of magnitude smaller than as a man - and lower than women. Transwomen are still the safest group in that society.

I read the piece linked in the OP all the way through and it looks good to me.

Trans people do face persecution. Trans people who are gender critical do get ignored and others claim to talk for them.

It reads to me like a piece calling for everyone to be allowed and able to discuss the issues no matter their opinion. Great!

@NRatched

Hmm. It does come across as they have 'picked a side'..however I read this differently to how a lot of others seem to.

The focus on transpeople being silenced I take to mean by TRAs. All the bits about transpeople not being heard, I take it to mean because TRAs are shouting them down, hence 'ordinary transpeople' are not heard. I may be wrong though. But thats how it comes across to me. Even with that said though it seems a bit weighted, but, I will remain openminded about this for now, and hopeful.

That's what I thought too. When you take the time to listen, this is what some trans people say - if you even get the chance to ask them. They don't want to get involved and just want to live their lives, or they recognise the misogyny in it and find that difficult to deal with.

I have zero trouble believing that GNC men get a lot of shit.

From men.

So why it's women who are the bad guy is anyone's guess..

I read this as standing against The death threats and abuse directed specifically towards women.

And the following paragraph about the silenced and vulnerable trans people indeed I think refers to those Trans people who are not trans activists and don’t agree with them

Overall it’s a decent attempt.

*All women, whether a successful novelist like JK Rowling or a struggling blogger expressing their gender identity, have a right to their opinions and a right to have those opinions heard.

Death threats, online bullying and attempts to undermine people’s careers are unacceptable. We stand against this censorship. We stand in solidarity with the targets of this abuse and we will fight for their right to be heard.*

Opposing censorship is their reason for existing.

Protecting free speech used to be the purview Of the ACLU Too, but they are full on woke now.

I think the issue for Index for censorship, is, that in some TRAs view anything but absolute affirmation of their position is seen as transphobic.

They are walking a tightrope. But it does seem like things have progressed in the last year.

Protecting free speech used to be the purview Of the ACLU Too, but they are full on woke now.

I know. Amnesty too.

Still I can't see it happening overnight and I read that post as an attempt to address the abuse without scaring away the TRAs.

You simply can't put it in stark terms of you want them to engage.

"Hopefully they are taking the "tru-trans" angle when they complain about trans voices not being heard. I'm okay with that, eg Kristin, Fionne, etc who all are very clear they haven't changed sex."

That's the interpretation I took from it.
Remember the earlier days, when TRAs were isolating transexuals and calling them "truscum" (I miss Truscum on here, btw)?

Datun posted a video link on another thread that documents the history - think it was the Brighton bullying thread, it's just hit 1000 posts. It reminded me of that.

I'm also cautiously positive. I realised since the Liz Truss statement that everyone speak to these groups like parents talking to toddlers having a tantrum. Lots of soothing words said in a cooing tone. Never saying no but wrapping it in sugary placating language.
It grinds my teeth but I suppose it's an indication of how reluctant organisations are to have an adult honest discussion about the issue. Presumably they're reluctant or even afraid to unleash the torrent of emotion generated if anyone speaks openly about facts and reality. So tedious.

So many great posts on this thread.

Well at the risk of looking ungrateful... given the YEARS of women raising freedom of speech issues around this, this blog’s apparent understanding of the issues is way too little, too late, for women. The presentation is so mealy mouthed here. But let’s see what they come up with. If they are intervening as part of Maya Forstater’s case that is great.

Presumably there is a public consultation part of this IOC programme of work that we can contribute to?

Best case scenario, did they maybe write this blog tactically knowing that if narcissists and TRA extremists aren’t centred that the narcs or extremists will disengage and try to derail the whole thing?

Worse case scenario- they can’t refuse to accept evidence from women and anyone else harassed by TRAs.

I don’t think Index on censorship can make it work, if they view ‘transphobia’ and calling names as having any power though. It’s just silly. They will have to set ground rules of what is actually ‘transphobia’ (And should do the same for sexism and misogyny) and they will need to be prepared to carry on this programme of investigation without TRAs and extremists if they have to, without feeling they need to apologise or capitulate to a genderist agenda. They’ve already said, rightly, that the bullies don’t represent all trans people. We know that. And presumably IoC have dealt with this situation before, I mean, dealing with ruthless authoritarian governments who disappear journalists doesn’t require the authoritarian officials to be around the table to carry validity..

So I am glad to see IoC doing this because their conclusions will/should have purchase within the views of left-wing policy makers who are currently cheering on the politics of genderism from a place of well-meaning ignorance, or from misogynistic pleasure at seeing women being put back in their box.

Any objective work on this by Index on Censorship can only observe immediately that the threats and toxicity are one-sided because at heart this is a men’s sexual entitlement/rights campaign which has rationalised itself with post modernist ideas of disruption of boundaries and has publicly legitimised itself by coopting LGB issues as their own.

Index on Censorship’s objective report will have to acknowledge that the threat to freedom of speech is particularly affecting women. They will have to acknowledge that the conclusions of TRAs‘ demands are particularly devastating for women. I think it will be useful to have more reports on the record acknowledging that.

Index on Censorship are intervening in my case. They have committed to this, and i am very pleased that they have.

I am worried about how they have approached the issue in Ruth Smeeth's recent blog post -- The ‘both sides’ narrative does not accurately capture what is going on, which is that debate about laws and policies and discussion of safeguarding is being systematically silenced through people being made fearful at work, for their careers and for the funding of their organisations. And this is only happening to one side of the debate.

I wrote my thoughts up....

medium.com/@MForstater/index-on-censorship-please-keep-standing-up-strongly-for-freedom-of-speech-on-sex-and-gender-ec01687cef37