Index for censorship plans for dialogue on trans issue

[Imnobody4]

www.indexoncensorship.org/2020/10/we-need-to-end-the-abuse-around-discussions-of-feminism-and-trans-rights/
We need to end the abuse around discussions of feminism and trans rights

09 Oct 2020

BY RUTH SMEETH

Free speech is difficult. It should be difficult. After all it protects our right to say things contrary to popular opinion. It protects the minority view. It facilitates debate. It provides the legal framework for protest. It allows people to tell their own stories. Most importantly it moves society on.

It’s why we so desperately need to protect our right to free speech, to cherish it and fight for everybody to be able to use it.

Index was founded to do just that. To cherish the concept of free speech. To expose repressive regimes who were censoring their citizenry and, when necessary, stand up against restrictive practices in our own countries. And for the last 50 years that’s exactly what we’ve done.

What we weren’t established to do was to pick a side on any individual issue that is currently being debated in society. It will surprise none of you that I have quite strong personal opinions on most issues and so does every member of our team, but Index’s job is solely to make sure that other people’s voices can and should be heard if they are being silenced. In the words of Stephen Spender, one of our co-founders, to be a voice for the persecuted.

Which brings me to the current discourse on gender and trans rights. I think we can all agree that this has become increasingly toxic. There is limited constructive dialogue, a huge amount of hate and little meeting in the middle ground to discuss practical ways to come together. Far too many exchanges are now less about the issues themselves, and more about whose side you are on – or even worse, about who has the right to participate in the conversation. The discussion has now switched from one embracing free speech to one of informal censorship.

When we talk about a chilling effect in the public space it is embodied by this issue. Some are genuinely scared to engage in any of the issues for fear of abuse. Members of the trans community, who face daily intimidation and persecution, are rarely being heard at all, as others silence them by claiming to speak for them. This is helping no one.

Index will be launching a new work stream in 2021 to build spaces for dialogue on this subject and others so that people can come together to air issues and find constructive ways forward. But in the interim I want to make it clear what our position is.

All women, whether a successful novelist like JK Rowling or a struggling blogger expressing their gender identity, have a right to their opinions and a right to have those opinions heard.

Death threats, online bullying and attempts to undermine people’s careers are unacceptable. We stand against this censorship. We stand in solidarity with the targets of this abuse and we will fight for their right to be heard.

Trans people face daily persecution and are subject to some of the most appalling abuse in society. Their voices, apart from a few limited exceptions, are not being heard. They have stories to tell but they are being largely censored. We stand in solidarity with them and we will ensure they too have a platform.

These positions aren’t contradictory and they shouldn’t be controversial in the UK in the twenty-first century. As ever Index does and will always stand against censorship.

[stumbledin]

I see there is an option to comment at the end of the blog post.

Is it worth it, or will it just become another online trashing session.

Or if nobody says anything does it make us complicit in agreeing with the editorial position of IoC.

[MerchedCymru]

We're staying positive on this one. IoC have been consistent in their core aim of standing up for those who are being silenced, including JKR. They've often been the only ones doing so.

They may actually believe that the violence/abuse comes from both sides but if they manage to set up a dialogue, or simply listen to women's stories, the reality will become clear i.e. that the targets of the death threats, online bullying and attempts to undermine people’s careers are women.

IoC could provide a civic platform to evidence that fact; one that is difficult for trans activists and assorted misogynists to undermine.

[MerchedCymru]

(and that's before we've opened the wine).

[WhereYouLeftIt]

I don't know anything about Index for Censorship - who are they? What have they done in their 50 years that I might have heard about?

And how are they funded? How big is their payroll? We've all seen the effect on Stonewall of trying to keep the money coming in . Is this organisation likely to be prey to the same?

[eurochick]

" Members of the trans community, who face daily intimidation and persecution, are rarely being heard at all, as others silence them by claiming to speak for them."

You what? Rarely heard? Ffs.

[PaleBlueMoonlight]

It is the fact they haven’t mentioned women’s rights or the nature of the actual conflict that concerns me,

[Manderleyagain]

It is disappointing. But this is genuinely positive. No other organisation is saying this, so I think working with them to get ot right rather than assuming they've picked a side is worth a try:
"Index will be launching a new work stream in 2021 to build spaces for dialogue on this subject and others so that people can come together to air issues and find constructive ways forward."

[MerchedCymru]

Just seen an update from Maya Forester that involves IoC...

I finally have a date for the Employment Appeal Tribunal (EAT). It will be 27-28 April 2021.
My legal team of barrister Anya Palmer and solicitor Peter Daly has been joined by a QC (Queen's Counsel - a very senior lawyer) Ben Cooper QC of Old Square Chambers. They are brilliant and I have every confidence in them.

The free speech organisation Index on Censorship has also been given permission to intervene to highlight the legal issues around freedom of speech. They will be represented by barrister and law Professor Aileen McColgan QC of 11KBW Chambers.

Credit to IoC. Putting their money where their mouths are.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

@eurochick

" Members of the trans community, who face daily intimidation and persecution, are rarely being heard at all, as others silence them by claiming to speak for them."

You what? Rarely heard? Ffs.

Now I could read that optimistically, that they regard the trans community as people like Debbie Hayton, Miranda Yardley, Kristina Harrison, Fionne Orlander; and those claiming to speak for them as what I would regard as TRAs/MRAs.

I'd really like to read it optimistically. I'd really really like to .

[MerchedCymru]

Agree that the statement is not satisfactory Pale. You would have hoped they could be more direct. But if they are hoping to get both sides to the table they absolutely need to be seen as neutral. And the fact that they are intervening in Maya's case, and spoke up in support of JKR, are hopeful signs that, behind the scenes, they are aware of the direction and source of the toxicity.

[Aesopfable]

The free speech organisation Index on Censorship has also been given permission to intervene to highlight the legal issues around freedom of speech. They will be represented by barrister and law Professor Aileen McColgan QC of 11KBW Chambers.

Let’s hope they don’t take the stance they have in this statement.

[Aesopfable]

they absolutely need to be seen as neutral.

Then they have failed.

[MerchedCymru]

The intervention is on behalf of Maya Aesop.

[Aesopfable]

Ah, good.

[Abhannmor]

Ruth who organised witch hunts in the Labour Party , that Ruth ?

[UncleFoster]

That is not a neutral statement. It is clear which side they are scared of pissing off

Women are not no debating transwomen, they are disagreeing with them. There is a massive difference. They arent threatening to murder or rape transwomen for their opinion, but they are saying they disagree with their views.

We all know its bs thats trans voices arent heard, they are the fucking loudest voice at the minute.

[howard97A]

AchieveBelieve Sat 17-Oct-20 13:46:44

They probably think they’re being incredibly balanced and fair by even allowing the mention of JK Rowling in that release. That’s enough to bring in a lot of criticism and accusations of bias from the TRAs. Giving the benefit of the doubt, I am thinking the transgender people that are ‘most vulnerable’ and who are not being heard aren’t the ‘choke on my dick, ‘die in a grease fire’, ‘TWAW’ mantra changers, but the ones who are thinking ‘WTF’ has happened in the past 10 years - how am I viewed the same as some teenager who is experimenting with their sexuality and identity and declaring themselves neither male or female? There are plenty of former ‘transsexuals’ out there as cynical and as disinclined to open their mouths about the subject. Let’s hope they get the chance to speak too. The crazy voices need to be put in their proper context because at the moment they’re occupying the former mainstream.

I’m taking the liberty of reposting AchieveBelieve’s post, because – if I understand it correctly – she is identifying the recognition by an important institution that the ‘genuine’ trans position is not represented by the very vocal TRA’s like Paris Lees with with their TWAW mantra, but by trans people who do just want to get on with their lives as quietly as possible and who are prepared to concede women’s right to control access to their exclusive single-sex spaces. Isn’t this the message that gc feminists want to get over to the wider population?

Have I misunderstood?

[UncleFoster]

I also think there all this talk of reaching a middle ground, but reaching a middle ground for women still involves giving up their rights. Okay maybe they get to keep some but they will still lose.

Why shouldnt women stand their ground?

[Gncq]

How deaf must you be to believe trans voices, or "bloggers expressing their gender identity" are being silenced??

FGS.

[Helmetbymidnight]

its a crap statement.

[RozWatching]

Who are the 'genuine' trans people?
Those who successfully campaigned for the GRA and the self id policies that have been put in place across the UK are just as trans as eg Hayton who, btw, is behind at least one self id policy.

[Gncq]

she is identifying the recognition by an important institution that the ‘genuine’ trans position is not represented by the very vocal TRA’s like Paris Lees with with their TWAW mantra,

The pretence that there are two types of transwomen the "true trans, quiet life, harmless" and "TRA, crazy, harmful" is damaging to women. They're all blokes at the end of the day.

The TRAs aim to help the first group and themselves. Not women.

If any in the first group are being silenced, it'll be only when they have expressed empathy for women. The group being actually silenced.

[Gncq]

she is identifying the recognition by an important institution that the ‘genuine’ trans position is not represented by the very vocal TRA’s like Paris Lees with with their TWAW mantra,

The pretence that there are two types of transwomen the "true trans, quiet life, harmless" and "TRA, crazy, harmful" is damaging to women. They're all blokes at the end of the day.

The TRAs aim to help the first group and themselves. Not women.

If any in the first group are being silenced, it'll be only for having empathy for women. The group being actually silenced.

[Manderleyagain]

MerchedCymru thanks for your posts. I'm pretty sure they were publicly supportive of Maya last time, but it's really good they are actually intervening on her behalf. They submitted evidence to the fair cop Jr too.

[Manderleyagain]

They also supported Julie bindel by pulling out of an event that she was no platformed from (I can understand they can't be seen to support events which no platform people) & made a public statement. But that was all under jodie ginsberg so this new info is good news.
Someone asked about them - they are quite a small charity, UK based, but with a global remit so much of their work is on places where journalists disappear in the night etc.
I am also positive about this. The statement read to me like they had originally had a reference to gc feminists in the paragraph about death threats, complaints to employers etc, but had chickened out and removed. Could be wrong though. It could just be Smeeth is personally on the twaw side, or really hasn't fully grasped the scale and shocking aggressiveness of what the pro gender side have been doing. If she gets involved by trying to offer a neutral space she'll find out. To team nodebate that isn't a neutral act.