Keir Starmer interview responds to transphobia in the Labour Party

[GreenUp]

Not sure if this has already been discussed but saw on twitter, Keir Starmer gave an interview to BBC South East and was asked about what can be done about transphobia.

Q: Transphobia What needs to be done?

A: "I think we've got to improve the situation here. The Gender Recognition Act is a step in the right direction. It doesn't go far enough. But what we've got to do is detoxify this discussion. We've got people having a very bitter argument. If we're really going to make progress, and I think we can, we need to have a much better debate about it so we can actually make that progress."

Question starts at 01:33.

twitter.com/bbcsoutheast/status/1316778516222930944

All the quote tweets on this are from TRAs who are furious saying there is no debate and angry that he is "both siding" a civil rights issue .

The LP are currently trying to hold two contradictory viewpoints: TWAW and women have a right to single-sex spaces (the latter was in their 2019 Manifesto thanks to the sterling efforts of those stalwart Labour women who are still fighting from within).

I don't know how long they can continue pretending that there's no conflict between those two positions - especially in the face of the current rugby debacle. Wonder if that's one of the reasons why they are so reluctant to engage in the debate. But they can't stay on that fence forever surely?

Either way, Starmer's refusal to even condemn the bullying of Rosie Duffield is absolutely contemptible.

Comes a point when you have to call craven cowardice what it is. And it's not after the worst has happened.

Oh very yes Floral.

Staying silent when female MPs are subjected to Peto's re-education programme is not fence-sitting. He dodged the question with a TRA talking point - more GRA.

So when is this debate starting Kier? Who's on? What's the structure? What sort of recommendations are we hoping to come up with? Party policy? Or a Commons debate? Or is it one of those T.V. debates like for the General Election? Will you put forward some party heavyweights like Lisa Nandy or Dawn Butler?

It seems more and more each day that as Labour Corbyn is to Jewish people, Keir Starmer is to Women and girls.

(Jewish women therefore get the double whammy)

Ah Corbyn was a misogynist twat too.

I emailed Keir Starter some time ago. I never got a reply.

@EdgeOfACoin
Interesting. Have you seen the "what's happening in Rosie Duffield's office" thread?

I still have hope for KS, I think he's very aware what a woman. Plus isn't his wife an occupational therapist? I'm quite sure she will know about the biological differences in the male/female physique.
But we also need to be careful not to demonise him in the way Corbyn was, as it made him unelectable. I can't face another term of Tory rule.

@Annasgirl

And for those who think the GRA does not go far enough in England - pop over to the Irish feminist board on here and see when the GRA goes far enough to keep the TRAs happy - what happens to real women. What happens to women prisoners and male rapists?

How far does it have to go to make them happy? There seems no end to it.

@SusannaSpider

I still have hope for KS, I think he's very aware what a woman. Plus isn't his wife an occupational therapist? I'm quite sure she will know about the biological differences in the male/female physique. But we also need to be careful not to demonise him in the way Corbyn was, as it made him unelectable. I can't face another term of Tory rule.

I had hope for a while. But then I started to feel like I did early on when Stonewall were first being asked to define lesbianism as same sex attraction and Madigan was on an AWS for women's officer - like a peasant in China who thinks Mao just doesn't know what is going on and if only he did...

Kier is hiding on this one. And I don't want to vote for a coward who won't condemn bullying.

I had hope for a while. But then I started to feel like I did early on when Stonewall were first being asked to define lesbianism as same sex attraction and Madigan was on an AWS for women's officer - like a peasant in China who thinks Mao just doesn't know what is going on and if only he did...

Just don't. If we can't have hope for Labour, what else is there.

Well, that's the rad in my radfem. If the system crushes women, break the damned system down and start again.

I know it's not easy or even all that realistic, but you need daftarse militant dreamers like me to push the envelope because Starmer and pals are quite happy to dick about while the Tories sit pretty in the middle of a mishandled pandemic.

I'll get over here dragging the Overton window over, and everyone else can plead with the nice man to say that intimidating women is bad so they'll vote him in to piss all over them by making sure legislation goes further than the GRA. Jaysus.

Sorry. Very angry today, not targeting it at anyone except the cowardly men in 'power'.

All the quote tweets on this are from TRAs who are furious saying there is no debate and angry that he is "both siding" a civil rights issue

Well I hate it when its made out both sides are as bad as each other, when the aggression and violence and such is totally one way.

But this is a start.

He is off message though, the fuming will get worse, the mre he refuses to name feminists as bigots.

From the linked reddit thread..

Starmer is not saying this in response to the government discussing the GRA. This is his response to one of his own MPs abusing her platform to lead a campaign of bullying and harassment against an extremely vulnerable demographic.

Eh? Campaign of bullying and harassment? I must have missed something very sigificant here..I thought Rosy simply stated her support for womens rights acknwledged the clash between womens rights and what activists are demanding, and took a bit of offense (as will many women) at the word 'woman' becoming some sort of dirty word. Who did she harass, assuming the meaning of harrass has not also changed meaning and is now 'disagrees', like 'attack' and 'wish they don't exist' and such.

People on there claiming Rosie doxxed former employees also. Missed that too oddly. IF she did, which I am highly doubtful about, thats obviously wrong. But still, of course she does not deserve endless threats of violence and death. So if thats why 'harassment and doxxing' have came up, to excuse the miogynistic abuse, it really does not defend the abusers in the way they think it does.

Most of the thread, as expected is a fucking mess. Seeing them trying to convince themselves that 'noone cares what TERFs think' is slightly amusing, given 'what TERFs think' matches the overwheming majority of public opinion (when polls are clearly worded, instead of purposely fudged/vague of course). They do not seem to realise, that its not 'sex matters' thats the niche opinion, its those who reckon sex is not important or not even a real thing and a feeling in ones head overrides the sex picked from a sorting hat each time a baby is born

A fair few comments along the lines of 'why did he not take the chance to affirm he will give transpeople more rights if he gets elected, he would certainly get elected then'..which..is pure fantasy. Abandon half the population, and kill Labour off even more really.

Many TRAs would have a field day on that thread, as a few seem to acknwledge that transwmen in womens prisons and sports, and medicating kids is something that needs discussion (just not any other part of it). Which of course means some of those screeching terf at others, are terfs themselves.

Disappointing that he did not take the oppurtunity to condemn the death threats against Rosie though, but ot entirely surprising. He will get MUCH shit for this 'middle of the road' comment alone. I wonder if his office will be bombarded like other MPs who do not toe 100% the transactivst line. I have a feeling it might be a bit of an eye opening for him, he will see the toxicity amplified beyond belief, and maybe realise its all from one side. Before now, it will have been sweetness and pleading and misrepresenting and guilt tripping. Now, it will turn extremely sour, quickly and the tsunami will hit.

@RozWatching

I emailed Keir Starter some time ago. I never got a reply.

@EdgeOfACoin
Interesting. Have you seen the "what's happening in Rosie Duffield's office" thread?

Ooh, no, I haven't really been following that one @RozWatching.

I'll check it out.

I just read the Rosie Duffield thread.

So it looks as though emails from GC women to Rosie Duffield (and possibly other Labour MPs) are possibly being screened and weeded out by staff workers without ever reaching the intended recipient.

This sounds quite tinfoil-hat, so obviously I'd want to be sure it's not a case of an overactive spam filter. However, if it is true, it is shocking.

Cross posting here, but rather than moaning about the Labour Party, Labour members should run for election Peto's and other LGBT activist posts are up for re-election at their AGM.
twitter.com/LGBTLabour/status/1314882405715640322
If you don't want to run yourself back an ally like Rosie Duffield, Helen Lewis or Debbie Hayton.

Can you explain more GreenLabour? Who can go to the AGM? Who is standing or has the right to stand?

Not sure if this has already been discussed but saw on twitter, Keir Starmer gave an interview to BBC South East and was asked about what can be done about transphobia.

Q: Transphobia What needs to be done?

So the BBC on twitter have completely misrepresented the exchange. It should have been:

Q: Violent threats against women and dismissing account of their domestic abuse. What needs to be done?

Spider- what else is there? Being honest presumably. What’s that cliche about if we don’t learn from history we are doomed to repeat it? Well we can’t learn anything if we aren’t honest about the reality and sticking our heads in the sand and praying we get thrown a crumb of hope is a fuck tone harder way to face life and in no way can be conductive to learn anything that might help us not repeat the cycles over and over again. If the world stuck to what else have we got there would never be any revolutionary change ever.

If every woman (and man who supports us) stepped away from the cognitive dissonance of thinking what else is there & hoping against hope that labour might eventually be a little less mean to women one day, we could all spoil ballots and demonstrate the reality that women’s voices just aren’t heard let alone met by any party. Then maybe one party might realise half the electorate is up for grabs. Or maybe we could just form our own party out of this fucking joke of a mess. All the women fighting this publicly are doing an incredible job but maybe we would all be better served if they’d form a real party for women and we can all contribute in all the ways we have and vote in women that represent us. Maybe Jk Rowling could be our ticket for priminister, electing celebs seems the in thing in the US so why the hell not here.

The reality is nothing gets better until we are are honest about how bad it is. Voting for any party that says this is ok is telling them that’s just fine by us that they keep throwing us and our daughters under the bus.

It seems that labour’s use of abusive tactics fall wide. Angela Rayner MP thought it appropriate to call conservative MP ‘scum’ in the commons during an discussion about Coronavirus restrictions and this was taken up on twitter:

She [Conservative co-chair] said it resulted in the phrase "Tory scum" trending on Twitter and caused "widespread abuse towards members of our parliamentary party", including abusive phone calls and MPs' offices being targeted.
"We respectfully ask you to take action, reaffirming your commitment to working constructively, asking Labour MPs and party members to act appropriately at all times, taking action against those who perpetrate this unacceptable abuse online and offline, and publicly apologise for Angela Rayner's record of unparliamentary behaviour," she wrote to Sir Keir.“

Just don't. If we can't have hope for Labour, what else is there.

Starmer definitely knows what is going on. That's why he didn't sign that ridiculous indefensible TRA declaration because he knew he couldn't support the more extreme demands.

The only hope with Starmer is that he might push GRA reform off the agenda. But currently Labour are still supporting self-id. If you want that to change, join and start arguing.

It is not clear, it is not very transparent, but if it is like disability labour any labour member who defines as LGBT. Each minority group have their own rules.

Looked it up, labour.org.uk/ballot-2020-faqs/
I can only find the rule for disabled members which says you have to have told the Party that you self define as disbabled by the 27th of September. It is probably the same for being LGBT so too late this year. Rosie Duffield, Debbie Hayton, or Helen Lewis might of done before the deadline. I don't do twitter much so I have not kept up with what is being said.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

They hate you already. Just take out the trash Keir, the misogyny and witch hunts are out of all control. Be brave and stand for women. Grow a fucking spine and get a new moral compass.

It would really make me happy if he did.

But realistically I can't see it happening.