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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Brighton TRAs bullying female small business owner

999 replies

SapphosRock · 15/10/2020 15:02

Urgh. This is happening in my home town and it’s shit.

Happy Maki is a small, vegan cafe and takeaway. It’s a very ethical business. All about sustainability and green energy. They plant a tree and feed a child for each wrap made. It’s a gift economy and the food is free with a suggested donation. All very hippy. You get the idea.

A FTM trans person approached the female owner of Happy Maki and asked for support in fundraising for their top surgery. I believe they wanted a poster in the window asking for money. The owner refused. When pressed the owner said it was against her religious beliefs - she is a follower of the Divine Truth which admittedly sounds a bit ‘out there’ but not entirely unexpected given the nature of her business.

Anyway the TRAs have really gone to town and are posting in every Brighton based Facebook group, Instagram and Twitter accusing the owner of Transphobia and calling for her to apologise:

twitter.com/makiunhappy/status/1314261939833446400?s=21

They seem to be getting a lot of support and gaining a lot of traction too with many saying they are now going to boycott the business.

I’m upset about this for a lot of reasons. Obviously the female owner being bullied and harassed in this way and them encouraging people to email her. The lovely takeaway losing business. It’s also pretty tone deaf to attack the hospitality sector in the midst of a global pandemic for not supporting one individual’s elective, life changing surgery.

Anyway, the reason I’m posting here is in solidarity with the owner Anna. And if any of you lovely lot are nearby then consider getting a Happy Maki takeaway. The food is delicious and I’m sure they could do with some support right now.

www.happymaki.co.uk

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Winesalot · 16/10/2020 12:46

Escapeplanning

Did you just do a Rhona Hotchkiss!!!

Aesopfable · 16/10/2020 12:46

Current medical and psychiatric opinion

So you are saying it is a psychiatric issue?

MondayYogurt · 16/10/2020 12:46

Brighton must now impose a requirement on all small businesses owners that they post a detailed list of their personal beliefs on the wall. Any wrong beliefs or personal opinion divergent from the right beliefs can therefore be identified and the owner taken for re-education sessions. If these sessions don't have the desired effect of aligning the individual's beliefs with those mandated by the Brighton Borg, the individual may then be removed from family, and placed into a camp, much like the exemplary ones currently educating people in China right now.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 16/10/2020 12:47

The point is, posters here will obviously take the side of those whom refuse to believe trans ideology

I dont

I’m sure other posters dont either

And honestly....sounds a bit, oh gosh how do i say this nicely....twattish when posters seem to think they are the only ones who have looked at both ‘sides’ Or are broadminded enough to see clearly

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 16/10/2020 12:51

So Anna tells fibs

It sounds like anna misunderstood the facebook post (if indeed she read it, someone might have told her)

People in glass houses really should not throw stones

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 16/10/2020 12:53

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's not even gaslighting. It's just risible jibber jabber on a Mickey Mouse phone.

This is the best comment I am likely to read all day. Am going into a meeting shortly so I really need to compose myself Grin

I think it might be the best quote of 2020
Datun · 16/10/2020 12:54

[quote jj1968]@Datun

I think claiming that people are bisexual due to unresolved trauma is biphobic, as is her apparant belief that bisexuality doesn't really exist and bisexual people just haven't found their true soulmate yet. She is entitled to her beliefs and her religion but she is not entitled to inflict those views on her workforce who have a right to go to work without having to spend the day listening to their boss's cranky theories about their sexuality. I also think her religion is biphobic if that is what they teach.[/quote]
Oh dear lord. If you truly think that people who believe in soulmates are biphobic, you might have to take that up with almost every song writer of romantic songs in the last hundred years. Poets, novelists, authors, and almost every teenage girl on the planet.

Snort.

She said: "Whether you believe that or not and whatever sex/sexes you or I choose to sleep with I have zero issue with or judgement towards and I definitely don’t feel that anyone is invalid"

I tell you what is invalid, though, transactivism claiming that an exclusive attraction to male individuals, can be called bisexuality. Or sleeping exclusively with females, can also be called bisexuality.

So valid...

Escapeplanning · 16/10/2020 12:56

Bigenderality is non binary phobic.

IwishNothingButTheBestForYou2 · 16/10/2020 12:59

Yeah, twattish seems to cover it.

Winesalot · 16/10/2020 13:02

I think claiming that people are bisexual due to unresolved trauma is biphobic

But there is likely to be some people who have suffered trauma who might fall into this category? There is more than likely not many, and frankly most people would look at this opinion as being misguided rather than about denying any person their existence. And again... how was this even brought into a conversation at work?

as is her apparant belief that bisexuality doesn't really exist and bisexual people just haven't found their true soulmate yet.

She did not say this. And you are continuing to twist this to suit yourself. So many posters have disagreed with you and yet you persist with this line. She. did. not. say. bisexual. people. do. not. exist.

jj1968 · 16/10/2020 13:10

I think heterosexuality is the result of unresolved trauma but I wouldn't rant on about it at work because I'd probably get sacked.

Aesopfable · 16/10/2020 13:12

@jj1968

I think heterosexuality is the result of unresolved trauma but I wouldn't rant on about it at work because I'd probably get sacked.
What is ‘heterosexuality’?
IwishNothingButTheBestForYou2 · 16/10/2020 13:16

@jj1968

I think heterosexuality is the result of unresolved trauma but I wouldn't rant on about it at work because I'd probably get sacked.

Not if you worked at stonewall.

IwishNothingButTheBestForYou2 · 16/10/2020 13:16

Or the Guardian.

IwishNothingButTheBestForYou2 · 16/10/2020 13:16

Or the BBC

IwishNothingButTheBestForYou2 · 16/10/2020 13:17

Or Spunk News

DidoLamenting · 16/10/2020 13:17

@jj1968

There are witnesses, why do you assume that she is lying?

I don't, I don't think we can know for sure but the fact the workers were prepared to give up there jobs I feel strengthens their case. Why do you assume the workers are lying?

Incidentally on her blogpost she says this:

"Chinese whispers is a real thing, according to facebook I once broke a staff member's rib!"

What it actually says on facebook is this

"this post only scratches the surface of how truly awful a person the owner is. in 22 years i have never had such an awful boss and i have literally had a rib broken by a boss during shift before"

So Anna tells fibs.

No she misread it. I actually read it the same way as Anna.

I don't believe the workers. Their accusations all seem a little bit too pat. Anna is apparently a terrible employer but this was the final straw that tipped them over the edge? Really?

Cailleach1 · 16/10/2020 13:18

Collapses from the ironic hypocrisy.

jj1968 · 16/10/2020 13:20

From the ACAS guideline on harassment

Generally, harassment:includes bullying, nicknames, threats, jokes, ‘banter’, gossip, intrusive or inappropriate questions and comments, excluding an employee (for example -ignoring them or not inviting them tomeetings), insults or unwanted physical contact.

is based on the victim’s perception of the unwanted behaviour rather than that of the harasser, and whether it is reasonable for the victim to feel that way

can also apply to an employee who witnesses harassment because of a protected characteristic and that has a negative impact on their dignity at work or working environment, irrespective of whether they share the protected characteristic of the employee who is being harassed

For the harasser to say their behaviour was not meant to be harassment or that the comments were ‘banter’ is no defence.

Employers and managers should be careful not to let their own views influence a situation or dismiss a concern because they do not deem the behaviour offensive themselves.

It is important to remember that if an employee feels strongly enough to raise a concern or make a complaint, the employer or manager should take it seriously, and deal with it correctly.

archive.acas.org.uk/media/4267/Equality-and-discrimination-understand-the-basics/pdf/Equality_and_discrimination_understand_the_basics_-_July_2019.pdf

From the ACAS guidelines on Sexual Orientation Discrimination

Sexual orientation discrimination: key points for the workplace20particular sexual orientation are the same.Such guesswork can often be done without realising –what is known as unconscious bias.Stereotyping can lead to problems, particularly concerning direct discrimination by perception and direct discrimination by association. For instance, see the example under ‘direct discrimination by perception’ earlier in this guide. Stereotyping can also trigger harassment and victimisation. For instance, see the example under ‘victimisation’ earlier in this guide.To find out more about the general origins of stereotyping see the companion Acas guide, Prevent discrimination: support equalityat www.acas.org.uk/equality. Also,see the Acas website pageat www.acas.org.uk/unconsciousbias.Unacceptable terminologyDerogatory terms that refer to somebody’s sexual orientation are clearly unacceptable and discriminatory.It is important to remember that discrimination might not only affect those who are part of a smaller group. It can affect others, too. So, employees and employers should be careful not to overlook potentially offensive comments simply because they are aimed at a large part or majority of the workforce. An employer should provide equality training explaining to managers and staff that even referring to an employee’s sexual orientationat all unnecessarily could be potentially discriminatory. It is important for everyone to remember that certain words have the potential to cause offence and therefore there is a need to be considerate as to how such words might be perceived by others. With discrimination, it is generally how the recipient perceives words and actions, rather than the intention of the person delivering them.

When an employer receives a complaint about sexual orientation discrimination, it should take the matter very seriously, and listen carefully and with empathy to what the employee says.

All employers should have discipline and grievance procedures, and each employee’s contract of employment should include information on where the details can be easily found.

archive.acas.org.uk/media/4411/Sexual-orientation-discrimination-key-points-for-the-workplace/pdf/Sexual_Orientation_Discrimination_Nov.pdf

Oh they didn;t have contracts did they.

Datun · 16/10/2020 13:21

Frantically trying to use sexual orientation to force women into complying with trans ideology, when sexual orientation doesn't exist in trans ideology.

Cailleach1 · 16/10/2020 13:23

Last comment refers to the references to 'phobics' which are so ephemeral that there is no definition possible. And, then writing the word heterosexuality. Interesting to give a definition for that one which does not reflect on the author as being 'phobic'.

Datun · 16/10/2020 13:24

JJ. She doesn't agree with trans ideology.

Get. Over. It.

Cailleach1 · 16/10/2020 13:27

What is heterosexuality? Has that been explained yet?

PotholeParadies · 16/10/2020 13:27

@Jugglingalloftheballs

The owner could well have just said ‘no, we don’t put posters in the window/support other charities’ instead, she waffled about how the ‘spirits’ made this person trans.

Replace trans with ‘gay’ and maybe you’ll see why the owners response was out of order. I agreed this was bat shit crazy When I read the OP, until I read what had actually happening.

Um, tried that.

I don't see what difference that makes. I don't know what idyll you're posting from but there are religions that think being gay is sinful and their beliefs are protected. Ignoring anything to do with the trans issue, if I, as a non-employee, went to a business owner of such a faith and asked them to let me put up a poster for any charity that supported gay people, they could say no way, José. They can't refuse to sell products to gay people, but they don't have to compromise on their private views either.

There was even an interesting court case (already discussed in thread) that ruled that a religious bakery had to sell a cake to a gay couple getting married, but they were entitled to refuse to ice the cake with a message supporting gay marriage.

Other people's beliefs aren't always very nice but we don't have thought-crime. The legislation that protects people from being discriminated against as people for their sexual orientation or gender reassignment also protects religious beliefs; that's vital for a civilised society, because it protects people of faith from being discriminated against by others of a different faith.

I don't like homophobic religions, but I like my right to follow faiths that aren't homophobic. History has shown us what happens when you don't have a social policy of religious tolerance and it hasn't been good-natured secular atheism.

EvenSupposing · 16/10/2020 13:28

Telling lesbians to do dick = fine and dandy

Musing about whether past experiences might influence sexuality = 14 pages of unrelated shite C and P from ACAS, a call to workers of the world to unite, a targeted social media campaign to ruin your business and an invitation to abase yourself before the committee.

Seems fair and proportional.

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