RFU clears TW to play at *all* levels of rugby

[Kit19]

the absolute fuckers!!!

I mean, you would assume they'd already asked the female players, wouldn't you

Read the quoted sentence again. It doesn't say they will consult women, it says they will consult players in the women's game...

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I mean, you would assume they'd already asked the female players, wouldn't you

Read the quoted sentence again. It doesn't say they will consult women, it says they will consult players in the women's game...

Good point.

My mum and I have both had that copy and paste response back. I was less civil in my reply than I was in the original email.

Sporty DD has been asking about rugby recently. Shes only 8. Apparently her best mate plays on a weekend next to where we live. She wants to do rugby, gymnastics, football and tennis apparently. I was happy for her to do all really, depending on timings. Unfortunately I will now discourage the rugby. I knew even female only could have risk of injuries (when older, unlikely surely as an 8 year old) but allowing males to play against her when older, is just outright dangerous. I do not want her to get very into it, and then have to stop because of bullshit like this. I cannot be the only parent thinking this way, so while they play the 'no, men playing women are no danger!!!' card, I highly suspect participation will go down a fair bit. But that won't matter right, aslong as the few males involved are happy?

Fair Play For Women have been fighting this - not just in sport but also in prisons where it is so hard for women to speak for themselves. It's a tough and exhausting fight, though I have heard Nicola Williams say that messages of support do help her to keep going.

@DerryWitch

Fair Play For Women have been fighting this - not just in sport but also in prisons where it is so hard for women to speak for themselves. It's a tough and exhausting fight, though I have heard Nicola Williams say that messages of support do help her to keep going.

Fair Play For Women have been asking on Twitter this week for females who've been affected by the trans inclusion policies to get in touch - you can do it via their website confidentially. Someone wanting to play and being afraid to (or her parents being afraid to let her) is being affected and it shows how so-called inclusive policies are excluding women and girls.

@NRatched

Sporty DD has been asking about rugby recently. Shes only 8. Apparently her best mate plays on a weekend next to where we live. She wants to do rugby, gymnastics, football and tennis apparently. I was happy for her to do all really, depending on timings. Unfortunately I will now discourage the rugby. I knew even female only could have risk of injuries (when older, unlikely surely as an 8 year old) but allowing males to play against her when older, is just outright dangerous. I do not want her to get very into it, and then have to stop because of bullshit like this. I cannot be the only parent thinking this way, so while they play the 'no, men playing women are no danger!!!' card, I highly suspect participation will go down a fair bit. But that won't matter right, aslong as the few males involved are happy?

Sorry, meant to quote you @NRatched not my own message!

Fair Play For Women have been asking on Twitter this week for females who've been affected by the trans inclusion policies to get in touch - you can do it via their website confidentially. Someone wanting to play and being afraid to (or her parents being afraid to let her) is being affected and it shows how so-called inclusive policies are excluding women and girls.

The evidence is not advanced enough?? I'm sorry, but do they not have EYES? Can they not SEE how much bigger and taller and broader men are? I am sick of this craven bullshit, where people pretend they need a million studies to prove what we can all SEE!

Will do so probably tomorrow..had my meds now so stop making as much sense as usual

I actually considered that when I saw it, but figured it would not include me as it seemed to be wanting people who are currently playing and are affected.

I can't find the actual quote but pretty sure I have read about a doctor saying society is moving quicker than the evidence

I responded today. I tried to remain polite.

Pointed to a lot of the science. There's an article in today's Economist magazine that helped.

I doubt I will get a reply but I hope that every time someone has to defend a policy that is patently unfair and unsafe for women, they will feel increasingly uncomfortable.

@TheQuietWoman

The evidence is not advanced enough?? I'm sorry, but do they not have EYES? Can they not SEE how much bigger and taller and broader men are? I am sick of this craven bullshit, where people pretend they need a million studies to prove what we can all SEE!

People will see this, but presumably they're banking on this being such a grass roots movement, coupled with the lack of visibility if women's rugby in the public eye, that by the time anyone notices it will be too entrenched to unpick.

I went back to RFU with a load more questions and have already had a response basically saying that they can't answer the questions at the moment. But that all the various feedback would be considered.

I'd urge anyone who wants to get behind this to email [email protected]

I'm definitely going to follow this up in a few months!

Same - picked their initial email apart and got the fobbing off part 2 response today:

^Thank you for your email. I’m afraid I’m not able to provide any further details or responses to your questions and comments at the moment. As mentioned in the previous email, we are now looking to work with other Unions and subject matter experts in this field to continue to develop the scientific work, gain better insight and answer outstanding questions so that we can develop and implement guidelines that are fit for purpose in addressing any potential safety and fairness issues whilst also being inclusive. I can’t provide specific timelines on the consultation the this point, however all feedback and correspondence such as yours will be considered and appropriate stakeholders in the women’s game will be contacted in due course. In the meantime our current policy remains in place (www.englandrugby.com/about-rfu/rfu-policies/transgender-policy).^

So they are furiously looking for 'experts' who agree with them?

I'd urge anyone who wants to get behind this to email [email protected]

Yes, please write. As someone already said, the rugby players themselves can't speak up about this. They risk losing sponsors, etc. The rest of us have to speak on their behalf.

If they are claiming to be looking into it further though, to see if it is indeed safe/fair, the default would surely be to NOT allow it in the meantime, especially given the World Rugby decision (and how they arrived at it)? Until evidence is found that it is all fine and dandy?

I have replied to their copy and paste email requesting that this time they answer my questions and don’t just send another c&p. I have already tweeted their insurers.

Anyone actively involved in women’s rugby (players and coaches) please have a look at this survey. Research looking at sex differences. Yes they do mention gender but they are looking at physiological sex differences in rugby.

Link would help!

mobile.twitter.com/LizWilliams101/status/1297967703383248896

Thanks for flagging this up. It’s interesting the RFU call for more days but these researchers seem quite clear on the science.

“There are many physical differences between males and females, in addition to playing opportunities and access to expert coaching, which may compromise the safety and performance of women rugby players. Reports have shown women to be 2.6 times more likely to suffer a concussion in sport. Research shows that female athletes take longer to return to play, have worse symptoms and are more likely to report dizziness, fatigue and difficulty concentrating than males. Differences between male and female head/neck physiology, neck strength and neuronal structure in the brain have been linked to a greater head injury severity in females following rugby impacts.”

And yet still Rugby England persist...

The concussion comment may refer to this study also from Swansea University:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-51434749

There is also work being done on female concussion by the Glasgow Brain Injury Research Group. They are partnered with Pink Concussion.

@NRatched

If they are claiming to be looking into it further though, to see if it is indeed safe/fair, the default would surely be to NOT allow it in the meantime, especially given the World Rugby decision (and how they arrived at it)? Until evidence is found that it is all fine and dandy?

This would be the logical approach cleanly. If you are wanting to include biological men in a biological woman's sport, that was separated by sex originally for safety and fairness reasons, then surely you would have to prove it is safe and fair before allowing biological men to compete? For the safety concerns alone surely, SURELY that's the only approach to take? If a woman get seriously injured by a transwoman in Rugby would she not have a case to sue these clubs for ignoring the recommendations and changing the same sex rule without proper research first?