RFU clears TW to play at *all* levels of rugby

[Kit19]

the absolute fuckers!!!

@FindTheTruth that template is good. I’ve just picked up the one from the cycling thread too.
I’m a member of my local ReSisters group. We’re going to write to all the local Rugby Union clubs in the area to make them aware of this issue.
If FPFW can attack this from the top end, then I reckon we need to start at the bottom.

Saw this yesterday. Have dug and emailed RFU, but am still incandescent, so came here to vent.

What pathetic, misogynistic, cowardly, miserable, dick-pandering, brain dead bastards!

Thank you.

mary

Yes we do. But it won’t happen. Because I would bet that the men would be very mindful that they were playing with women and act accordingly.

That courtesy will not be afforded to women by the walloping great brutes who choose to play in women’s rugby.

@DonkeySkin

The same goes for unnecessary use of 'trans' and 'trans people' when presenting feminist arguments. In almost all cases 'trans' status is irrelevant to the issue under discussion. What is relevant is sex, and it is misleading to frame the argument in terms of 'trans'. We don't want to exclude 'trans people' from women's sport or prisons or shelters - we want to exclude male people, regardless of whether they claim transgender status or not.

Yes.

I think from now on "player/competitor who has undergone male puberty" will be my descriptor of choice on here, where the modding rules are very tight.

Just emailed the RFU. Absolutely crazy decision - any sane person should think that placing massively bigger and stronger players in a contact sport could result in serious injury and to place the feelings and comfort of small numbers over and above the risks women will now face makes no sense. But I guess in all these arguments its clear that sense and logic play no part.

Occasionally a story like this cuts through to drive me to a higher level of anger than normal. How can they possibly value female players so cheaply?

Just thinking more: this is just so fundamentally unfair to female rugby players.

Girls rugby is under supported. There isn't the same opportunity to play and train for females at younger ages or grass roots level. The money and support isn't there.

But it's there for men. Even amateurs.

So a man who has had access to years of training and support from a young age decides they are a woman and want to carry on playing rugby, their access to training and advantage to develop their skills (not available to female rugby players) will continue to advantage then or at least disadvantage the female rugby players. It's not an argument for someone who changes genders.tjen deciding to play rugby it's someone who plays rugby and wants to change gender and still play rugby. Their advantage will disadvantage women who haven't been able to access the same training etc.

I'm not really sure this makes sense.

It just smacks of Man Has Good Stuff. Man Wants to keep Good Stuff. Woman Must Move Aside.

I've emailed. Dual purpose as it helped me get my extreme anger out of my system as well as hopefully letting them know women aren't happy about this

I’ve emailed too.
This is Martin Bayfield a former England lock on Celebrity Masterchef

metro.co.uk/2018/08/24/celebrity-masterchef-fans-cant-get-over-gregg-wallace-stood-next-to-massive-rugby-player-martin-bayfield-7877463/

He was the body double for Hagrid in the HP films.

Are the RFU seriously saying that if he dropped his testosterone for a year he would be have been safe to play against women.

The Times covered this today: Share token: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/99cea548-0e27-11eb-ac14-2688f9fd3309?shareToken=978d67172e9c022a1cdee8c8a2cc055d

Thanks for adding the share taken.

Saw that then also linked to the following story from 2019 (sorry I have no token for that)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-policies-could-alter-after-hormone-research-hwbkb9wzd

But could see enough to read one sentence 'This week, it was revealed that a transgender rugby player is aiming to play in a Welsh women’s league this season, with her coach joking that she has injured several team-mates in training.' So in training. With team mates. What on earth kind of damage would be possible in a match?

I honesty think my mental health is being affected by all this. I’m worried and upset by the complete disregard for women but more than that, it is the way that these things are happening with such confidence and lack of challenge because people are so terrified of being called transphobic. This engineered fear is being harnessed.

But could see enough to read one sentence 'This week, it was revealed that a transgender rugby player is aiming to play in a Welsh women’s league this season, with her coach joking that she has injured several team-mates in training.' So in training. With team mates. What on earth kind of damage would be possible in a match?
I think this is referring to Kelly Morgan who started their career playing for something like East Wales as a teenager (so quite high level) in the men’s team and then suffered an injury so couldn’t remain on the men’s team. They then transitioned and joined the women’s team.

This was the ‘folded opponent like a deckchair haha’ player (and accidentally broke a coach’s arm or ankle (they’ve deleted details from various articles so I can’t remember)

@TildaTurnip

I honesty think my mental health is being affected by all this. I’m worried and upset by the complete disregard for women but more than that, it is the way that these things are happening with such confidence and lack of challenge because people are so terrified of being called transphobic. This engineered fear is being harnessed.

I hear you Tilda

Here you are PickleC.
Share token for the other piece about hormones:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c838c650-c5b9-11e9-9b38-47c3100effef?shareToken=4f09eebdf7261bc697854d8fd2d90400

And yes TildaTurnip It's terrifying how easily women's rights to sport and safety have been handed over to men self identifying as women. BUT, this is an issue that is bringing tens of thousands of people who had no idea about the extremes, on board.

@gardenbird48

But could see enough to read one sentence 'This week, it was revealed that a transgender rugby player is aiming to play in a Welsh women’s league this season, with her coach joking that she has injured several team-mates in training.' So in training. With team mates. What on earth kind of damage would be possible in a match? I think this is referring to Kelly Morgan who started their career playing for something like East Wales as a teenager (so quite high level) in the men’s team and then suffered an injury so couldn’t remain on the men’s team. They then transitioned and joined the women’s team.

This was the ‘folded opponent like a deckchair haha’ player (and accidentally broke a coach’s arm or ankle (they’ve deleted details from various articles so I can’t remember)

I've found an article which still mentions that. I tried to archive it but it failed, so can someone else try before it gets edited out of existence again?

www.newschain.uk/lifestyle/transgender-sport/transgender-rugby-player-blazing-trail-she-prepares-welsh-league-debut-1288

"She's put me in hospital, I won't lie about that," added coach Wayne Mansell. "She's given me a fracture in my ankle during a game of touch," but at the same time he claims she does not have a physical advantage over her opponents.

Thanks persistentwoman. Its like going down a rabbit warren of illogicality the more you read about every aspect of this.

@PickleC

Thanks persistentwoman. Its like going down a rabbit warren of illogicality the more you read about every aspect of this.

It is all a rabbit warren of illogicality. Segregating sports on the basis of gender identity makes absolutely no sense.

The segregation was to take into account the fact that human bodies come in two slightly different versions with different advantages and disadvantages which do, however, overall privilege male bodies over female bodies in most sports. So without that body type -based segregation women (female women) would not medal in events where body size, upper body strength etc. matter.

Not slightly for most sports, I'd say? My DH is a "fast-paced club runner" in the top 2,000 in the UK. Last time I checked only 23 women were ranked higher than him and that includes team GB and other professional runners. So not far off 1%.

My sport is equestrianism and that's the only one I can think of that isn't segregated. Darts and snooker I guess as skill-based but I've always been of the opinion if you can smoke when you're playing it's a game rather than a sport

Cricket and football are quite different sports when watching the female version, less reliant on power and strength. Cricket ostensibly has open and female categories so it's already inclusive

@McDuffy Totally what you said. Top of their game, but very much amateur sportsmen could beat some of the women on the Olympic team.

This difference can be evident from around age 13. Hell, there are 11 year old boys who could give many national champion women a run for their money over certain distances.

Cricket differs again because it has different rules. The boundaries are smaller and the ball is lighter. In football they still have to kick the same ball in the same sized goal. But in cricket, a male can use his superior size, hand size, strength, arm length, batting arc, and height to:

a) hit a smaller lighter ball not as far to get a boundary and
b) bowl a smaller lighter ball faster from a greater height.

So as well as there being massive unfairness, there is a massive safety issue too. The fastest woman bowler at the moment is around 125km. Any male who bowls above that - what would be considered medium pace in village cricket - from a greater height is risking a woman batter being struck dangerously.

This difference can be evident from around age 13. Hell, there are 11 year old boys who could give many national champion women a run for their money over certain distances.

Great illustrative resource if you haven’t seen it.

boysvswomen.com/#/

www.thepowerof10.info/rankings/

Also an excellent website for comparing athletic performance of male and female athletes across age ranges.

Exactly, a male doesn't even have to have fully completed male puberty to be physically bigger, stronger and faster than the average woman.

Maybe this will be a schlug of Kool Aid too far. Massive overreach into fantasy and cult thinking.