Rosie Duffield interview in the Times

[EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus]

Sharetoken link.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/69771b5a-0a71-11eb-9ac5-9d2cf4a10c9f?shareToken=94d9142082b12e3a00f1c377a31f49f6

@HumphreyCobblers

That is a great article. Thank you Rosie.

I would like to email, sorry to be dim but where would I get the address?

Just about to read The Coddling if the American mind. If I can get the strength of mind, it is all so depressing.

It's a very good book.

I did wonder before reading it whether it was going to be some tedious right-wing culture war drivel about "snowflakes". But it isn't - it's very thought provoking.

Rosie.

I am so bloody angry at this shit. Why should this woman be afraid for her life for having liked a fucking tweet?!

I want Mumsnet's next campaign to be one about protecting women politicians from online death and rape threats.

I want to go and put my big fat middle aged self between Rosie and whoever is threatening her. Why the fuck isn't Starmer drawing a line, here?

This is unsupportable - never mind the bloody debate, whatever her views she should be free to discuss them without fear.

'Young people might have much more knowledge and lived experience,' - was this sarcasm? Hard to tell.

And I think I may send Rosie a card thanking her for standing up for women.

Indeed. Particularly powerful due to the current toxicity and idiocy of Labour.

Keir Starmer - ex DPP - knows full well the importance of sex-based differnences/discrimination as well as the full consequences of TWAW and still doesn’t make a stand.

Angela Rayner- Complicit.

Angela - the Women's National Anti-suffrage League would be proud of you!

The sentence that stood out to me was, 'Does she not think that trans women [sic] are women?

If we could all stop pretending that anyone actually thinks this we'd get a lot further sooner

She's shown true grit here.

@EvenSupposing

The sentence that stood out to me was, 'Does she not think that trans women [sic] are women?

If we could all stop pretending that anyone actually thinks this we'd get a lot further sooner

Yes - and imagine, we could support trans rights without having to erase fundamental biology which has driven life on Earth since the days of the primordial soup - not many social constructs there.

@FamilyOfAliens

I couldn’t agree more with this comment though:

“In an article jam packed with nonsense sentences, “Young people might have much more knowledge and lived experience" might be the most egregious. No. They don't. Let's stop acting like they do.”

At that point I said out loud - "but I have far more lived experience of being woman and everything that goes with it - why is that less important?"

This is why I left Labour, it's not just about Labour stance on trans issues, which changes like a weathercock so I haven't a clue what they stand for.
Its about how, when Labour women are subject to abuse the party stays silent or in some cases joins in the kicking.

It was the treatment of Anne Ruzylo which first drew my attention, then the witchfinders list (was that Labour against transphobia?), then the attacks on women's place meetings, now Rosie.

Labour is no place for women at the moment, it's an abusive environment.

Wow.

Might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb springs to mind.

I’m sending Rosie a card. She’s magnificent. The comments on that article are utterly fabulous. So many people get it.

The sentence that stood out to me was, 'Does she not think that trans women [sic] are women?

You know, maybe she does believe tw aw sometimes and that females still need their protections. Or Maybe she feels scared to say transwomen are transwomen.

One interpretation is that she is highlighting that even if you do treat transwomen as women while allowing the exceptions under law for single spaces, choice of female health care provider for intimate care etc, you still get treated like heretic and get abuse and threats. And that there is absolutely no nuance allowed.

The other alternative that she is now too scared to be fully truthful is just worrying.

as worrying

The sentence that stood out to me was, 'Does she not think that trans women [sic] are women?
If we could all stop pretending that anyone actually thinks this we'd get a lot further sooner

yes, im staggered that we are at this place actually- it says so much about us that we have got here. its a fascinating phenomenon- encompassing ideology/faith/misogyny/etcetc

ray blanchard was an early studier of gender disorder, (hes on twitter) he said early researchers....
'thought that a caring society could make minor accommodations to transsexuals’ emotional needs, but they did not think that society – including science and medicine – should upend its concept of biological sex just for the greater emotional comfort of transsexuals.'

I really appreciated that she ostensibly sidestepped the TWAW mantra. She's still trying, to her absolute credit, to be conciliatory with the contingent that are calling for her head, which is exactly what a politician in a liberal democracy should do.

I mean, in answer to that question, I would have said "No, of course TWANW, but that in no way implies they are not human beings worthy of dignity, rights and protection." But I am not a female politician who has had to face down what she has. So she answered with a very brief 'yes' without expanding on what she might mean by that, and then focused back on to women. Proper fistbump salute. Great stuff.

agreed.

for Rosie

She's not very bright, and not very effective in Canterbury. I vote Labour but was strangely relieved to be in a constituency that's been Tory since time immemorial.
She's right about this, though.

@SunsetBeetch

And I think I may send Rosie a card thanking her for standing up for women.

That’s a brilliant idea.

She's showing considerable grit and guts here. Wonder if she's trying to nudge KS to address the issue?

@FloralBunting

I really appreciated that she ostensibly sidestepped the TWAW mantra. She's still trying, to her absolute credit, to be conciliatory with the contingent that are calling for her head, which is exactly what a politician in a liberal democracy should do.

I mean, in answer to that question, I would have said "No, of course TWANW, but that in no way implies they are not human beings worthy of dignity, rights and protection." But I am not a female politician who has had to face down what she has. So she answered with a very brief 'yes' without expanding on what she might mean by that, and then focused back on to women. Proper fistbump salute. Great stuff.

It's the framing of the question I am objecting to. Not her (politicians) answer.

I know she doesn't think TWAW because, actually, no one does. Well maybe there is someone in the depths of Twitter but no one IRL really really believes this. The interviewers don't. Benjamin Button doesn't. No one. It's just become this stuoid shibboleth everyone has to say. And that is evident because it is framed as, 'Does she not believe...' not as an honest question - 'Do you think...' It's so reductive. It's like some religious exchange everyone has to get out of the way at some point. And it's a lie. Every time. TWANW. Everyone knows this to be the case. Why must we lie?

Comment on the article:

"Great article.

Jo Cox was killed by an extremist.

Rosie Duffield gets death threats from extremists and the police do precisely nothing. Labour does precisely nothing apart from attack the women who object to death threats.

Meanwhile the police are busy trying to arrest journalist Darren Grimes for hosting an interview with historian David Starkey

The police in this country is a joke."

I do wonder-- if Jo Cox had been a male MP murdered by an extremist would the horrendous death threats against another male MP some years later be ignored? Would he be blamed, instead, and told to refelect on his hateful comments? Would the party leader say "let's not shine too bright a light on this"?

Really.

We need Angela Raynor and Keir Starmer to answer this question.

I will send her a card too. And an email and copy in my Labour MP. Lifelong Labour voter here.
How can we expect women to be in public life/service and be threatened and harassed like this with no generalised support statement from their senior leaders?
Fuckers.
The death threats thing is heartbreaking.
This party lost a female MP to murder. They should be bending over backwards to support their female MPs who are threatened. What signal does this send?

She's also going to be crucified for saying it must be 'horrific' to be trans.

I did not know about the make up of the ‘gender balance’ for the LGBT group until I read this from the comments section.

The Labour LGBT committee (behind the hounding of Rosie Duffield) has 16 members.

There is supposed to be 8 women on the committee and 8 men. But 4 of the "women" are biologically male. The person who is hounding Rosie Duffield is leader of this group and is a male who identifies as a woman.

So 12 males and 4 females.

Labour say that this is "gender balanced".

Blimey. The erasure is already well underway and no one at the top seems to care.

And the fact that this starts with women’s officers in the student body being taken up by males is again so often minimized or simply not understood by young women at uni is a massive concern.

I'm going to send a card/email too, she's my MP (technically, as an overseas voter) but I'll be disenfranchised before the next election so this is my only way to thank her.

But that bit about young people having more knowledge and life experience, urgh no, though its exactly the kind of thing I thought when I was a young person and older people pointing out that I didn't just made me more opposed to their points of view so I kinda understand saying it.

@thedaytoday

She's also going to be crucified for saying it must be 'horrific' to be trans.

Yes because while it is definitely true that it makes you commit suicide all day it is also true that it is all glitter family and unicorns and being your authentic self. Depending on what we are trying to achieve in that particular tweet.