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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tatchell says trying to prevent public sex is homophobic

94 replies

Clymene · 02/10/2020 14:24

https://twitter.com/petertatchell/status/1311962893248847872?s=21

He is complaining that Southwark council has tried to prevent gay men from having sex in burgess park. For those unfamiliar with the area, Burgess Park has play areas, sports facilities, a cafe, a lake etc. It's the biggest green space in a very built up area.

Is there some particular reason gay men need to have random encounters in bushes? Is that what he's arguing? Confused

Tatchell says trying to prevent public sex is homophobic
OP posts:
Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel · 02/10/2020 15:52

He's also in favour of child sex abuse. He's an utter cunt.

Melroses · 02/10/2020 15:53

Ah yes, the man who wants a say in Schools Sex and Relationships Education Hmm

Clymene · 02/10/2020 15:56

@Melroses

Ah yes, the man who wants a say in Schools Sex and Relationships Education Hmm
I'd forgotten that. Nothing like coming across some bloke sucking off another one in the shrubbery as a kid to give you a healthy perspective on sex. Hmm
OP posts:
BillywilliamV · 02/10/2020 15:56

It must be very odd inside his head, he seems to be able to think of nothing but sex, weird!

TyroBurningDownTheCloset · 02/10/2020 15:57

This is a bit homophobic of Tatchell, isn't it?

By saying it's homophobic to expect gay men to conform to the same standards of public decency as heterosexuals, he's tacitly positioning homosexuals as sexual deviants.

Not exactly doing the rest of the community any favours, is it?

Flatpackback · 02/10/2020 15:58

Every day I become more convinced that Mary Whitehouse had a point

MustWe · 02/10/2020 15:59

He’s saying it’s homophobic because having sex in bushes is an integral part of homosexual culture.

ArcheryAnnie · 02/10/2020 16:01

Tatchell has been acting like a useless dick for a very long time. Nothing he says on anything should be given any credence whatsoever.

Toddlerteaplease · 02/10/2020 16:10

He's done this before, he objected in the early 00's when the council put gates on Russell Square. The Duchess of Bedford who I think were the landowner. Pointed out that "why should gay people be able to do things that herosexual people can't do"

NiceGerbil · 02/10/2020 16:26

There was a long piece in defence of cottaging a while back, not sure who wrote it .

I have sympathy to an extent with these things being a longstanding part of gay culture for a variety of reasons.

What I find interesting is that men feel ok if they are gay with claiming certain public spaces as 'theirs' and in general men who aren't gay (and who know) steer clear.

I can't think of any public spaces offhand that women have essentially claimed as theirs and others know and leave them to it.

When it comes to spaces that are public though, they are for everyone, not just for men/ with a few for gay men.

It's a male entitlement issue at heart, I think?

NiceGerbil · 02/10/2020 16:29

Of course lots of men are still closeted, eg from religions where it's not acceptable etc.

As a group that have suffered discrimination/ persecution by the police in the 50s etc I totally understand why space to meet etc are precious.

But, they are also public spaces.

It's a tricky one. But the idea that cutting down some bushes in a park is an act of homophobia is rather strong.

I don't know what the answer is though.

MichelleofzeResistance · 02/10/2020 16:35

As Tyro says.

As a gay person I find it very homophobic that Tatchell would like us to believe that socially inappropriate behaviour that stomps all over other people's rights and boundaries not to be involved non consentingly in other people's sex lives, nor to have to deal with the sheer bad manners of people who don't know what healthy boundaries or respect for others is, is a natural and normal part of being homosexual.

No, it's a natural and normal part of being an arse, Peter. Get some bloody boundaries for fucks sake. Or therapy. Or both.

sunshinesupermum · 02/10/2020 16:46

Clapham Common is another place where gay men go to have sex. Just why?

JiggeryWokery · 02/10/2020 16:47

Off topic, but the capitalisation and the exclamation mark at the end make it look like a tweet from Donald Trump.

TyroBurningDownTheCloset · 02/10/2020 16:48

It's "male who believes he has the god-given right to subject nonconsenting others to his public indulgence of sexual proclivities" phobic.

Arse-phobic might work as a shorthand though.

MichelleofzeResistance · 02/10/2020 16:54

Well bottom line (sorry) this is a man with a problem.

Not really someone to turn to for a quote, but then I suppose it sells papers.

GivesNoFox · 02/10/2020 16:55

@SunsetBeetch

Tatchell does more harm than good for gay rights and acceptance of gay people. Dear god.
THIS!!!👏👏👏

Fuck this creep.

Melroses · 02/10/2020 17:00

@sunshinesupermum

Clapham Common is another place where gay men go to have sex. Just why?
And Hampstead Heath - I remember an MP having to resign after a 'schoolboy prank' there.
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/10/2020 17:12

I just found this related piece:
archive.li/xDwgF
It's very long, so I've copied a few excerpts below.

Then again, simply being in public can be a disaster when you’re queer. Having sex in a public place almost comes naturally when your body is hardly welcomed to begin with.

Still, there’s an ongoing culture war within the queer community between those who advocate for public sex and those who believe it’s abhorrent. As radical queers go toe-to-toe with burgeoning purity culture, issues of class, race, gentrification, sexual consent, and the long-term legacy of the AIDS crisis merge together to create one of the most complex issues the LGBTQ community deals with.

For teens or young adults that live in strict, conservative households, public sex provides an opportunity for sexual exploration outside of family control. For women, having sex in public can feel empowering, doubly so if you’re in a space where public sex is expected, such as a music festival, sex party, or BDSM club. But there is a double standard around who gets to have public sex, and who doesn’t, which fuels backlash against queers who have sex in bathroom stalls and park forests.

During the 20th century, public sex was a cornerstone of LGBTQ sexual expression. By having sex in public, queer men, women, and nonbinary folks reclaimed public spaces from heteronormative society and turned them into hubs for queer eroticism and desire

Bathrooms, parks, and alleyways also give queers the privacy they need to hook up with each other away from discriminatory parents, partners, and siblings.

Homoeroticism is so attractive to men across sexualities that the police have to suppress it in order to uphold the heterosexual status quo, Califia writes.

Why is sex supposed to be invisible? Other pleasurable acts or acts of communication are routinely performed in public—eating, drinking, talking, watching movies, writing letters, studying or teaching, telling jokes and laughing, appreciating fine art. Is sex so deadly, hateful, and horrific that we can’t permit it to be seen?

Sex workers, leather gays, and radical queers still push for destigmatizing public sex, if not engaging in it themselves, but public sex isn’t quite the widespread queer pastime it used to be.

Instead, moral panic over gay public sex has grown. While cisgender heterosexual couples are much less likely to be seen as boundary violators for hooking up in a bathroom stall or the backseat of a car, queer sex is inherently transgressive, so queer public sex quickly becomes a target for homophobia from within and without the queer community.

“I no longer find nudity frightening or repulsive […] Instead I have become more accepting of my own unadorned, vulnerable, imperfect flesh,” he writes. “Seeing other people having sex is reassuring and enlightening. It calmed the panic I’ve been carrying around ever since I first heard my parents fucking and thought they must be murdering each other.”

Many queer people follow in Califia’s footsteps. Datalore66 is a millennial born and raised in New York City, where she started having public sex during her teen years. Growing up, “almost no one [had] a car” in New York, and queer community was hard to find, leaving few alternatives available. While she’s since stopped having as much public sex, Datalore66 still enjoys it to this day and only discourages public sex when it’s particularly distracting, inconsiderately messy (such as sex with vomiting), or involves sex near a place where children could be present.

In a world where our phones are tracking our every moves, our voice assistants are listening in on our conversations, our unencrypted sexts can be seen by service providers, and our webcams can spy on our BDSM sessions, we are all having public sex now. Defending public sex is partly about defending the right for consenting adults to decide when they have sex, where, and who they do (and don’t) allow to gaze in. And in that case, it’s the most marginalized that are gawked at and policed the most.

NiceGerbil · 02/10/2020 17:14

Just catching up. Who remembers the Hampstead heath badger excuse guy? An MP. Vv funny

Aesopfable · 02/10/2020 17:15

these things being a longstanding part of gay culture

Doesn’t Thatchell also argue child marriage is a longstanding part of certain cultures?

Being a long-standing part of a culture doesn’t make it right.

SomeDyke · 02/10/2020 17:18

No one needs to have public sex anymore. Okay gay men who aren't out might have issues possibly being seen going into a gay club, and would prefer pretending to go running late at night in a park and having interesting encounters in the shrubbery....

But tells you a lot that as far as I know, no lesbians I knew ever engaged in this sort of thing.

As far as I can see, the real reason is that a lot of gay men like and prefer anonymous sexual gropings in the bushes. And want to continue doing so, despite hearing what effect their encounters may have on other users of these spaces. Whilst claiming that the ability to get a blow-job from a random stranger in your local park or churchyard is an important piece of gay (male) culture that should be defended................

But it's just the same ole male entitlement, that there should be no obstacles when it comes to chaps getting their end away.

NiceGerbil · 02/10/2020 17:19

'For women, having sex in public can feel empowering, doubly so if you’re in a space where public sex is expected, such as a music festival, sex party, or BDSM club.'

????????!!!!!!!

The argument is that women like having sex in public and everyone is ok with that so it's homophobic to say men shouldn't?

How many women does he know :/

NiceGerbil · 02/10/2020 17:20

Most people having sex outdoors do so as there's no where else to go.

I speak as someone who was once a teenager.

There's nothing empowering about a chilly, furtive, uncomfortable quickie.

TyroBurningDownTheCloset · 02/10/2020 17:23

I must be lesbianing wrong, because having sex in public places has never come naturally to me.

Quite the opposite, in fact. Shuddering at the thought of the audience it would draw.

Unrelated to my own orientation, I do wish men weren't so blind to the fact that a lot of women find an aggressively public display of male sexuality threatening. Regardless of the orientation of the man in question.

Testicles of Objectivity again, isn't it? Man believes he's indulging in normal and natural behaviour, women who find it discomfiting are automatically wrong, because his subjective interpretation of his behaviour is objective truth.

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