Susanna Rustin in the Guardian

[Botsy]

Couldn't see this posted but feels like a step forward

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/30/feminists-anti-trans-idea-sex-gender-oppression

Interesting that the Guardian has also posted this on their facebook page where it is open for comment.

Where needless to say one of the first comments is from a man who clearly has not understood a word!

www.facebook.com/GuardianOpinion/posts/3617304494968720

Has Talcum X thrown one of his mantrums yet?

They creep in everywhere!

Dial!

I've got a woman friend on staff at the Guardian (not Susanna) who's GC and is incredibly frustrated by how binary (lol) the position-taking is among many of the staff there. She says she spends a lot of time and energy keeping her mouth shut, thereby replicating the experience of women through the ages I guess. for Susanna and I hope her fellow senior editorial staff in the UK hold their nerve. It really shouldn't be regarded as unconscionable to express these opinions.

Well, the blokes on that facebook thread aren't happy with it, that's for sure.

She says she spends a lot of time and energy keeping her mouth shut, thereby replicating the experience of women through the ages I guess.

It's funny, though, how when I see women speak up on this it's clear that they've often been reading, thinking, carefully weighing the issues. A couple of male friends have come out with TWAW blurts on facebook, to be met with enormously measured, calm and knowledgeable posts from women that are practically referenced and footnoted - yes, women are accustomed to keeping silent, but by god when they do speak out they often come out with the most blinding sense.

On Twitter: Well someone at the Grauniad has had a change of heart! You are very brave. Courage calls to courage. Now we'll wait for the 200 members of the Grauniad's IT section, plus Owen Jones, to demand you are cancelled.

@JellyFishSquish

On Twitter: Well someone at the Grauniad has had a change of heart! You are very brave. Courage calls to courage. Now we'll wait for the 200 members of the Grauniad's IT section, plus Owen Jones, to demand you are cancelled.

😆😆😆😆

That's a well written article. It's just so calm and sensible isn't it?

It's funny, though, how when I see women speak up on this it's clear that they've often been reading, thinking, carefully weighing the issues. A couple of male friends have come out with TWAW blurts on facebook, to be met with enormously measured, calm and knowledgeable posts from women that are practically referenced and footnoted - yes, women are accustomed to keeping silent, but by god when they do speak out they often come out with the most blinding sense.

Agree. We have to be so much better than them to even be heard. I’ve been eDucAtInG myself since 2015. Still, some divvy TRA will post that black and white sex is a spectrum nonsense at me like I’ve never seen it before

WE HAVE SEEN ALL YOUR NONSENSE BEFORE!!

Oh this is fantastic.
Number 1 most popular article on the website right now too :)

It is very good to tie de Beauvoir to the mast in this way. Makes it very clear what it’s all about and reclaims very clearly for the benefit of the philosophy bros just exactly where the turf is.

Wonder if little Owen will start another petition

The article reads like it was written by an adult. Remarkable for the Guardian.

Very clear and balanced article and I'm delighted to see it in the Guardian.

Shame on them that they have driven many people to other publications like the Times, not to mention helped to drive thousands of women away from Labour. It will take a lot more than a couple of articles stating the bleeding obvious to gain back trust or political allegiance.

I really agree with her that gender based feminism will fall apart. It has to. It revolves around too many logical impossibilities, lies, denials of reality, denials of real experience, it places too many sexist requirements only on women. Its full of little loose threads that if pulled, the whole thing comes apart.

You have to have had limited life experience or be in denial or be very privileged or be suffering from a shitload of internalised misogyny in order to remain on board with it all, and for most of us reality kicks in at some point.
I’m looking forward to those feminists showing up on here over the next few years who will be massively fucked off about all the lying and manipulation they have been subjected to, suckered into or guilted into, or intimidated into. They are going to bring a new energy into all this.

Too late for me too. Cancelled my subscription a couple of months ago and won't be back till they give up the woke.

It's good to see the Guardian allowing feminist voices again.

Good article, but I agree with others that as far as the Guardian is concerned, it’s too late. I question the timing. The government has shelved self ID and called time on gender ideology being pushed in schools. Is it safe to publish this now, because the deal is done and it can’t influence the immediate political agenda?

@StandUpStraight

Good article, but I agree with others that as far as the Guardian is concerned, it’s too late. I question the timing. The government has shelved self ID and called time on gender ideology being pushed in schools. Is it safe to publish this now, because the deal is done and it can’t influence the immediate political agenda?

The timing is interesting, but I come to a different view from yours.

Surely, the G being the G, now would be the time for them to bemoan how bad and nasty the tories are, abandoning the TWAW agenda?

The fact the bill has recently been shelved by the Tories, makes the timing of this piece all the more curious.

Very thoughtful piece by the way, I really enjoyed reading it, in a “Ahhh. I’ve come home and can take my bra off” way.

Fair point, yellow.

If there is a change, they will really have to go some to convince me. It's not just about convincing me, it's the fact that a newspaper that should have been GC for so many reasons, decided to go down the feelinz route. It has really knocked my confidence in them as a media outlet

This is face saving at its most brazen. The Guardian have been on the wrong side of history, and they know it. In fact, they have been instrumental in creating the culture of febrile misogyny dressed up as social justice advocacy that every corner of society, politics, medicine, sport and law is now mired in. The jig is up. Great to speak up now, Susanna Rustin, but brave women like Janice Turner have been doing so in the face of hate for much longer. You are riding on her coat tails, on JKR's and on those of every non-famous, ordinary woman in the street who has been brave enough to post here, sign petitions and turn up to meetings. You can sod off.

It's a really well thought through article, and I feel better about sticking with the Guardian now. Long may it continue.