Simulated pregnancy and induced lactation

[GingerAndTheBiscuits]

Should possibly come with all sorts of trigger/content warnings.

DH just sent me this:

twitter.com/godblesstoto/status/1311050509072113664?s=20

TW simulating pregnancy and birth (in a house where their STBEx-wife and children live), already “planning” that the baby will be stillborn, and then wondering aloud if someone will lend them a baby to breastfeed.

All in a group for mothers taking medication so they can produce milk for their babies. Given how poor breastfeeding support is for many mothers in all parts of the world I can’t work out whether I’m more offended, disgusted, or terrified that this person has centred themselves and has people cheering them on.

DH questioned why women were commenting in support - I said it was part of the socialisation to “be nice”. His response was that it’s not being nice, it’s dangerous. And he’s right, but why can so many women not see it? Does it go beyond socialisation? According to other posts in the thread women were removed from the group for saying the person’s post was offensive/triggering to those who had experienced the loss of a child.

I don’t even know why I’m posting it really, other than I was so agog and this is one of the few places open to comment on things since I abandoned twitter

[PenguindreamsofDraco]

@MNHQ, what are the rules here - can we use the pronouns appropriate to this obviously very disturbed man or do we have to pretend this is a woman in need of particular support for the horrors of still birth and/or infertility?

[CaraDuneRedux]

Ultimately, the people I am most angry with in this scenario are the fucking lib fem idiots cheering him on.

He is clearly seriously mentally ill and needs psychiatric help.

The lib fems busy ignoring the fact that the emperor is not merely naked but barking mad and in desperate need of help, while they hoover up the woke cookies, and deprive a woman who desperately needs support of any help or sympathy because she won't play along with the barking mad delusion - they are the ones I feel angriest with.

[Frazzled13]

But I'm not sure this can be used as evidence of all trans people being this odd.

No one has said it is. But it’s reasonable to question what on earth is going on when a woman who had had a still birth is kicked out of a pregnancy group for not being supportive of someone planning a simulated dead baby.

(I’m aware they aren’t physically simulating a baby, but they are “going through a pregnancy” with the idea that the “baby” will be stillborn).

[ArabellaScott]

An actual bereaved mother got removed from a pregnancy and lactation group because she challenged this person.

Sending and my deepest condolences to this woman, whoever she may be. I hope that she found support somewhere.

[FireUnderTheHand]

@TinselAngel

It does make me feel very sad for the person.

I think we'd all be better saving our sympathy for the wife and children.

^This x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

[Datun]

@Plussizejumpsuit

This sounds a bit mad. The person doesn't seem OK. But I'm not sure this can be used as evidence of all trans people being this odd. Also there's a lot of difficulty and mental health challenges associated with being trans so I'm not surprised some people behave strangly. This isn't some kind of evidence women's rights and maternity care are being eroded though. I know all of the posts about trans people on here seem to want to use any example of odd behaviour as evidence this applies to all trans people. But I've never heard of anyone doing this before.

You won't find a single gender critical feminist who thinks that. I have no idea where you've got that from.

This is evidence of what would appear to be a fetish involving women's reproductive functions.

The fact that they can call themself a woma is because of trans ideology. It's entirely based on what someone says.

[Datun]

FireUnderTheHand

TinselAngel
It does make me feel very sad for the person.

I think we'd all be better saving our sympathy for the wife and children.


^This x 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Indeed. They are going through a nightmare of unimaginable magnitude.

[HecatesHat]

The more I think about this the more upsetting it is. The wife and children, the bereaved mother, the dignity of the women in the group, all sacrificed on the altar of one person's fantasy. I also hope the woman kicked out of the group has found empathy and compassion elsewhere.

[AuntyFungal]

PenguinDreams & Datun - so this is an argument about the hierarchy of “rights”?

My dad is now my mum.
Ok, whatever your opinion, the law makes provision.

My ‘mum’ is pregnant and needs us out of the house to give birth to a stillborn baby.
How does that not trigger a conversation with the school councillor?
Come on!

There’s a giant PC opening right there (for those who can be bothered) - “bereavement counselling” for the kids. Foot in the door.

[TinselAngel]

But I've never heard of anyone doing this before.

You've been given several examples in this thread.

[CharlieParley]

I have been known to reach for my belly while watching a TV show or a movie as I feel for where I believe a baby should be inside my body. Sometimes, writers take the story in a darker direction and include topics such as miscarriage or stillbirth, which are doubly damaging to me. In these situations, not only do I feel the loss of not being pregnant but the additional loss of feeling what it might feel like to lose a baby

I've cradled my empty belly, crying crying crying in the shower so no one would hear me. I fell into the deepest darkest abyss. Never to see light again. Other women, who had fallen before me, and had found the way out, reached out with understanding and patience and love, so much love, that I would know it wasn't the end, that first a glimmer, then a ray, then a shaft of light would reach me down there and one day I would stand in the warm light of the sun again.

None of us craved this experience. It did not gratify us, fulfill us, arouse us. We were profoundly changed by it, yes, but the instinct to help those who came after us did not come from a wanton desire for gorging on another human beings pain. It was borne out of our own pain and the certainty that alone this was too heavy a burden to carry for most of us.

We would have, gladly, emphatically, gifted that harrowing experience to any man, however disturbed, in exchange for the babies we lost.

The resurgent grief I feel right now, 19 years later, the visceral recall of that desolate, forsaken void at my core, has finally defeated my socialisation. I feel no sympathy for the suffering of this person. I do not wish happiness, peace or fulfilment upon such a putrid, festering cesspit of a brain. I wish I could have stopped such hateful bile spewing out of this narcissistic, depraved mind ever being inflicted on the women in that group.

I'm sending love to them, to all of us who are sickened by these foul fantasies of a perverted soul. To the suffering, soon-to-be-ex-wife trying so hard to protect her children from their narcissistic father. And I especially hold all of you in my heart who have felt that loss.

And let this rage fuel our resistance to the ideology that enables such depravity.

[Deliriumoftheendless]

@CaraDuneRedux

Ultimately, the people I am most angry with in this scenario are the fucking lib fem idiots cheering him on.

He is clearly seriously mentally ill and needs psychiatric help.

The lib fems busy ignoring the fact that the emperor is not merely naked but barking mad and in desperate need of help, while they hoover up the woke cookies, and deprive a woman who desperately needs support of any help or sympathy because she won't play along with the barking mad delusion - they are the ones I feel angriest with.

Exactly- how anyone can call themselves feminist whilst being ok with a grieving woman being excluded from a place of potential support because someone else is going to simulate a stillbirth is not a feminist or a humanitarian or even a decent person.

Anyone who calls themselves a feminist whilst prioritising male born people at the expense of women needs to reevaluate their life.

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

Supposing this happened in the UK.

A transwoman, with a GRC and all the paperwork saying that she is now female, informs her employer that she is pregnant.

She turns up to work with an ever increasing bump and stories about looking forward to the baby and questions about new motherhood and breastfeeding. She does her job perfectly well during this time.

She wants to go on maternity leave at 38 weeks.

Clearly, she's not entitled to maternity leave as she is not pregnant. But, what IS she? If it is transphobic to deny the material fact that she is not female, then, surely it's transphobic to deny that she is pregnant?

Would it be a hate incident, or a employee grievance if she was asked to stop wearing the bump? If she identifies as a pregnant woman, then why would that be less important than her adopting typically female hair style or clothing or shoes?

Tell you what, I've got a headache from thinking about it.

[ArabellaScott]

Charlie. Sending love.

[Deliriumoftheendless]

When I was at school my friend’s big sister hid a pregnancy and gave birth, alone, at 16 in her bedroom. The first thing her parents knew about it was walking into her bedroom, seeing the blood and her holding the baby.

I’ve given birth since then. What that girl did on her own and in secret is true warrior work.

[Mollscroll]

Yes that was my point vivarium re being protected in the work place. The employer would not only be required to tolerate this, there would be no steps they could take to put an end to this behaviour in the workplace or to distance other employees from this person without themselves being potentially guilty of work place harassment or discrimination or a hate incident.

[HecatesHat]

Charlie

[Frazzled13]

If the trans employee is female in law, then are they entitled to the employment protections that pregnant females are?

No, because women aren’t entitled to pregnancy protections if they are not pregnant. If a woman simulated pregnancy, she wouldn’t be entitled to maternity leave or pay.

[EarlofEggMcMuffin]

Charlie. There are no words to soothe that pain- I'm so sorry.

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

Oh yes, of course. Thanks, Frazzled.

Which is how I feel.

[EarthSight]

This makes me sick and it makes me even sicker to think that women are a) forced to put up with this absolute bullshit and b) many women are too thick to see a mentally ill person when they see one.

[dudsville]

This is all so disturbing. As a woman whose had several miscarriages, no children, one of which I was left contracting on the stuck sac for 12 hours (it took me a while before deciding to go to A&E, and then I got there at night and they didn't want to give me pain relief until some specialist arrived), I find it so disturbing that anyone would want to try to replicate that experience, the depression that followed, and believe that they really could. That isn't healthy.

Thanks for the pp who posted the SNL clip. Much needed.

Mnhq, glad you didn't pull this thread. These are our true stories. This is where we can talk about them. And this is where we should be able to be horrified at stories like this man's illness.

[WeeBisom]

I think the fact this person is trans is blinding some people (like the women on Facebook) to how incredibly weird this whole thing is. I don't think for one minute a woman would get as much sympathy, hand holding, and support if she came on a forum and said she was going to simulate a pregnancy and still birth. It would be clear as day that something was deeply wrong with her and she was in need of mental health care. It seems the second someone identifies as trans all common sense flies out the window. The latest update is his friends have refused to help him with his birth, so there are actually women offering to drive round to his house to assist him!