Anyone else's TV pleasure ruined by feminism?

[QuentinWinters]

I was trying to watch "The Social Dilemma" on Netflix yesterday.
It wasjust full of self congratulatory men, either really amazed that their big brains had come up with a difficult ethical question, or really proud they had monetised Facebook, or namedropping the ceo of twitter.
I got so bored of men wanging on I had to turn it off.
I don't know if it was just a really bad programme or if feminism has ruined me!

Actually veering way off topic here, but that’s part of the reason I left school for a separate 6th form with no uniform, I already felt threatened/at risk in my uniform by 16 (and that was pre-Britney)

I've got one. The movie Seven. A prostitute (sex worker) was horrible murdered
to represent punishment for lust. I was very young, but remember thinking prostitutes don't represent lust, their "clients" do.

I think there is a sort of cultural conditioning in women that makes us reluctant to speak up against artworks that make us feel uncomfortable in their overt misogyny. When I say "artwork" I'm talking in a broad sense which includes tv shows and film, but I'm thinking also about the "great" books of the 50s-70s which are much revered by male critics and readers. Kate Millett deconstructs this sort of thing better than I can, and I'm sure Jeanette Winterson has written about this in relation to Lolita.

Basically, you have these great cultural monoliths that are considered to reflect the universal human experience and which are beyond criticism, but in reality they're written from an entirely male perspective and if there are any women present at all, they usually end up being raped, humiliated, killed, or otherwise diminished. Men don't notice because it doesn't occur to them to look, so when a woman ventures to say "Actually, this book is full of misogyny and I don't think it's even a good read", she gets shot down, told it's beyond her understanding, that she's being small-minded and provincial
so true, I think this is even more so when you're young and want to 'fit in' as you don't want to look 'not cool'/alienate yourself even more than you already are in a lot of settings

It's not just film and TV either. It's books too.

I read an interview with a 'popular fiction' type writer a few months ago, I think it may have been Patricia Scanlan although I may have got that wrong. Anyway, she was saying that she used to get annoyed at her books being dismissed as chick lit etc because she writes about everyday people and human relationships. And then she realised that she was so hugely successful in terms of sales that the joke was really on anyone who looks down on her. (At least I think that's the gist of what she said). But she made the point that a book about human relationships written by a man is seen as a great insight into the human mind and heart, where the same thing written by a woman is entertaining fluff, only of interest to other women.

@BrandineDelRoy

I've got one. The movie Seven. A prostitute (sex worker) was horrible murdered to represent punishment for lust. I was very young, but remember thinking prostitutes don't represent lust, their "clients" do.

I was thinking about that movie recently too.

But then I wondered if, because it was meant to be based on 'sin', was it taking the biblical view that women who are prostitutes are just lust filled women of poor morals who can't get enough of sex?

@InvisibleDragon - acoup was indeed the blog I was thinking of! Good to meet a fellow fan

The thing about women's tolerance for rape as a trope in TV/film is that we're conditioned to accept it. Whether it's the lazy plot device in the police procedural, or the lazy way of giving your "strong female character (TM)" a traumatic back story to add "depth" (that you're incapable of adding through writing decent characters, it's everywhere. And then there's its close relation (and equally bad) the rape that turns to seduction - Gone with the Wind, Goldfinger, ...

Is it any wonder many women are so bludgeoned by this constant onslaught they don't react any more, or have even learned to eroticise on-screen sexual violence as a form of something akin to Stockholm syndrome?

Funnily enough I was re-reading the start of Kate Millett's Sexual Politics the other night. God it's depressing. Brilliant but depressing. An incredible take down of the "Great American Novel" (with Norman Mailer in all his ghastly, sexual-violence-glorifying horror). Then there's the opening of Dworkin's Intercourse, where she dissects the misogyny at the heart of Tolstoy's Kreutzer Sonata. (Now that's another "scales dropping from eyes" moment: as a late teen I thought Prince Andre's romance with Natasha and tragic death were the most incredible doomed love story - now I just get to how he treated his first wife with utter disdain and think "you arsewipe!")

My favorite author has always been Mary Stewart. She has a discussion between King Arthur and Merlin in The Last Enchantment that I always thought captured the truth.

Arthur has to explain to Merlin that when you're physically weaker and vulnerable, as women are, you have to make do.

Twilight is interesting in the sense that it's based on Wuthering Heights. So the same weird unhealthy romance/love/lust dynamic, which in less extreme form is a true enough sort of scenario in real life. But instead of it turning out as badly as you'd expect for something like that and as happens in the novel, in Twilight it just all turns out ok. So the romance in the classical literary sense becomes Harlequin material.

It's kind of brilliant in an entirely craven sort of way, it was bound to make a gazillion dollars.

I was thinking about that movie recently too. But then I wondered if, because it was meant to be based on 'sin', was it taking the biblical view that women who are prostitutes are just lust filled women of poor morals who can't get enough of sex?

t's from the POV of the murderer. Who might take the view that you describe, though I was inclined to think he saw it as all a sort of symbolic representation. Not a balanced analysis in any case.

Richard Curtis films.

I lasted about seven minutes with About Time. Just a set of middle class misogynists loving that they can pull the wool over women’s eyes.

Fuck off, Richard.

I find myself huffing at shows as well. I found myself praising Sokka in Avatar:TLA for totally accepting the awesome skills of the female characters without the ‘for a girl’ or ‘its ok cos you’re hot’ subtext. My sons were delighted of course haha

*Richard Curtis films.

I lasted about seven minutes with About Time. Just a set of middle class misogynists loving that they can pull the wool over women’s eyes.

Fuck off, Richard*

Noooo! I absolutely loved About Time when I watched it about 5 years, and fell in love with Domnhall Gleeson. I'm too afraid to rewatch it with feminist eyes so I shall just preserve it forever in my mind as A Great Film

Love Actually though, even as a teenager I could see what just appalling on every level. The only good bit is the scene at the end at the airport where it's 'real people' (is it?) greeting each other off the plane. I always get really emotional and round up various family members to hug

@caughtalightsneeze

It's not just film and TV either. It's books too.

I read an interview with a 'popular fiction' type writer a few months ago, I think it may have been Patricia Scanlan although I may have got that wrong. Anyway, she was saying that she used to get annoyed at her books being dismissed as chick lit etc because she writes about everyday people and human relationships. And then she realised that she was so hugely successful in terms of sales that the joke was really on anyone who looks down on her. (At least I think that's the gist of what she said). But she made the point that a book about human relationships written by a man is seen as a great insight into the human mind and heart, where the same thing written by a woman is entertaining fluff, only of interest to other women.

I don't know if Patricia Scanlan has made that point but certainly Marian Keyes has said very similar, for a long time too.

I like About Time. It's the only RC film.i do like!
a book about human relationships written by a man is seen as a great insight into the human mind and heart, where the same thing written by a woman is entertaining fluff, only of interest to other women.
Sooo true! That book " One Day" written by a man... MASSIVE critical hit. Whereas Marian Keyes ( who write the funniest most believable dialogue even in her daftest books) is looked down on as chick lit.
Has anyone else ever noticed that men almost never read books written by women? Unless they are thrillers about murdering women I guess.

I don't know if Patricia Scanlan has made that point but certainly Marian Keyes has said very similar, for a long time too.

And Jilly Cooper - I remember her saying once "Of course Jeffrey [Archer] and I would kill for Martin Amis' reviews. But then again, he'd probably kill for our advances."

Though I suppose the point here is that Marian Keyes writes well, just gets pigeon-holed as chick lit, rather than setting out to (knowingly) write disposable pulp fiction.

My biggest disappointment in this line was going t see the new blade runner a couple of years back. I have passionately loved the original since I was a kid, and was absolutely giddy at the prospect of seeing the new one.

I was crushed. I sat there in the cinema virtually in tears in front of this tale of one replicant and his virtual housewife sex companion, with only one actual named human woman in the whole film, which is set against a backdrop of more sexbots while angsty men grapple with the Real Problems. it doesn’t even pass the Bechdel test?? (Some argue it has one scene that does.). Absolutely woeful. I couldn’t have cared less about the story, because it was all wrecked by the casual misogyny.

I know the original isn’t quite a feminist rip roarer, but it was made in the early 80s for fucks sake, and it’s actually more egalitarian.

I’m not even going to defend it, but I actually really love GoT I try to ignore all the tits and fanny, and focus on how the characters with the most magic, the most power, and a lot of the best fighting skills are women. There is a lot to like there, particularly in later series when they stop giggling about boobs and hanging out in brothels.

Speaking of weird relationship dynamics, has anyone watched Osmosis on Netflix?
It's an uber stylish French show set in the near-future.
A brother and sister pair create a brain implant that allow people to find their soulmate.
It started off promisingly- interesting questions about love etc
By the end I was ready to scream- every single relationship is either toxic or abusive- but it ends on a happy note?
Still not sure if it was a giant pass take or if the creators really believed in 'all-consuming' love. 🤔

No bit Veganism and giving up drink has thoroughly fucked my enjoyment of Rick Stein.