Anyone else's TV pleasure ruined by feminism?

[QuentinWinters]

I was trying to watch "The Social Dilemma" on Netflix yesterday.
It wasjust full of self congratulatory men, either really amazed that their big brains had come up with a difficult ethical question, or really proud they had monetised Facebook, or namedropping the ceo of twitter.
I got so bored of men wanging on I had to turn it off.
I don't know if it was just a really bad programme or if feminism has ruined me!

@PlanDeRaccordement

The thing to me is that arranged marriages of various kinds have been pretty normal throughout history, people did not see them as beyond the pale in those times and places, and it wasn't (and still isn't) at all unheard of for them to turn out as loving marriages.

The Medici series shows this fairly well I think. Marriages were arranged, neither groom or bride had a choice or option to say no. It does show over time how the couples gain respect for each other and then in some cases, do love each other. The theme is usually about humans deciding to make the best of a life sentence with each other.

It wasn't really thought of as romantic, I think. More like "you can't choose your family". While some people have issues with the family they are born into, a remarkable number are basically loving whatever their problems. People thought of a spouse like family, not like someone who is a sort of romantic match, or a reflection of some choice that validates them. (Which sounds like an awful way to think of modern romance but I think not entirely unjustified.)

@EmpressSuiko I think my main issue was in relation to the way women were often semi clad or naked and there was nothing even close in comparison with men. I read the first couple of books so I'll maybe go back and read them again though I think the series of books is a bit never ending?

@Goosefoot
Yes, marriage wasn’t for love, it was to broker alliances between families. In first Medici season the nouveau rich common wool trader marries his son to an impoverished lady with a title to get aristocratic blood ties to open doors to upper echelons of Italian society. Marriage was to ensure economic security for the family’s next generation. It wasn’t just nobility that did this- neighbouring lords and ladies marrying their sons and daughters to expand the lands of any grandchildren. It was also right down to working class. A butcher might marry his son to the daughter of a cattle farmer so he gets cheaper family discount deliveries of cows to slaughter. A miller might marry his daughter to a baker for similar reasons to have a guaranteed buyer of his flour.

Agree about the 80/90s. I loved that era and think fondly of the time before smartphones etc but the blatant misogyny was rife. And yet at the same time girls like me were essentially being told the fight was won, we had equality, now I could off into the world on an even footing. It's taken until my mid-30s for some slow, hard lessons on feminism to be learned.

As an aside, I prefer Only Connect to University Challenge nowadays. There's usually a good mix of male/female, ages, backgrounds etc. Just loads of geeks of all varieties really. And presented by a woman.

This isn't as serious as many points made here but one that absolutely drives me mad for some reason - which is - age gaps between partners. Nothing wrong with age gaps, of course, but it's every single thing i seem to watch. recently watched Dark Waters - great film but Mark Ruffalo was born in 1965 and his 'wife' Anne Hathaway 1982. obviously they're based on real people so don't know what age the real wife is but from pics on the she looks around the same age as her hubbie. it's come to the point now that i can't not notice what a gulf there is in ages - on average there's at least a 12-15 age gap between male actors and their partners. but sometimes even more! We were appalled at Trump's assertion that 35 is 'checkout' time for women. But it seems film/tv makers seem to feel the same! it's harmful not just from the invisibility point of view, but also, think of all that acting talent that is lost - female actors beyond a certain age are just discarded.

I've found my crowd! Since finding feminism I know only read books by women and mostly only watch shows and movies directed by women and/or with strong and well rounded female leads. Womens prize for fiction is good. TV shows like Insecure, Girls, The L Word, Fleabag, I may destroy you, the marvellous Mrs Maisel. The good wife and Mad Men also good (not sure if those two are directed by women but they have interesting female characters). Anyone got any other recommendations?

Also....is anyone else appalled by how many iterations of the 'happy hooker' TV shows there are on Netflix right now?!

sorry, that post should read that in pics on the internet Robert Bilott's wife (Sarah Barlage) looks around the same age as him

When I was a kid I loved ‘Seven Brides for Seven Brothers’. I recently gave an outline of the plot to DH who increasingly thought I was taking the piss - “so the brothers decide to go into town and abduct the girls they fancy, whilst singing a jolly song about gang rape...”

Yes. No time to write at the moment but I have been thinking the exact same recently OP. I sit through films, thinking, did a man or a woman write / direct this bullshit.... no prizes for guessing....

@showmethegin

YESYESYES! I think like this all the time. Was watching uni challenge last night and the every contestant was a middle class white man. Unbelievable

Warwick did very well in that. Nice one lads, let's have another one.

I agree OP.

I can't even listen to classical music!!
White male privilidge music- really grates on me.

I get infuriated when people write off all comedy by women as 'the same'. It happens on here sadly - whole threads claiming that Miranda and Fleabag are basically the same as they have a main female character who breaks the fourth wall. As if anyone is talking about all the many, many programmes centred on men as 'all the same'.

I have a staggeringly low tolerance for most popular culture, as an incredibly unhumorous feminist. And was also muttering about the all-male GBBO judging panel.

Apart from Prue. Who is not a man.

Feminism ruined children's books for me: all those endless male characters with the odd token girlie.

And if you say anything you get, 'But BOYS must be encouraged to read! They don't read enough!' As if girls' psyches just don't matter.

It enraged me when my DC were small and it enrages me now.

I hate how in every gritty contemporary drama there is a strip joint to signify the dodgy place where the dodgy people hang out, along with lingering shots of female bodies. Totally unnecessary excuse to objectify and a cliche to boot.

And yy to university challenge and its all male panels. Can you imagine if there were two all female teams on last night? It would have been headline fucking news.

Also agree with others who are sad at the male dominance of GBBO now. I like Matt Lucas and Noel Fielding well enough, but it's a crying shame that the show has gone that way since the Mel and Sue days.

The spousal age Gap in films always jumps out at me. I saw a graphic on Instagram recently, that showed the ages of Jennifer Lawrence and all of her film love interests, over her career. Apart from the hunger games, there were very large age gaps. Fairly standard in Hollywood, I expect.

I love both Miranda and Fleabag and I think PWB was deliberately subverting the formula of the former to create something fresh. Everyone draws to some extent on what's gone before, even if it's a reaction to it.

@IvySpivey

Outlander! I can't watch it as it's very 'rapey' I don't understand why women are raving over it.

Blergh, it reminds me of the scene from the first season where Jamie punishes Claire (for being captured) by beating her with a leather belt. What's really disturbing is that it's played for laughs. It's set to jaunty fiddle music FFS.

@TheCuriousMonkey

I hate how in every gritty contemporary drama there is a strip joint to signify the dodgy place where the dodgy people hang out, along with lingering shots of female bodies. Totally unnecessary excuse to objectify and a cliche to boot.

And yy to university challenge and its all male panels. Can you imagine if there were two all female teams on last night? It would have been headline fucking news.

Also agree with others who are sad at the male dominance of GBBO now. I like Matt Lucas and Noel Fielding well enough, but it's a crying shame that the show has gone that way since the Mel and Sue days.

THIS. In so many programmes/ films the blokes meet up at a strip club. They don't go themselves to see the women (though many get handed a woman at some point), it's just a meeting place with t and a as background. So easy to just use a bar instead but clearly men cannot be trusted to keep watching unless they have some dehumanised eye candy. Any objections can be plausibly denied..."it's what the characters would do".

The latest one to annoy me was Brassic (the second series). I thought it had been quite a male heavy, but diverse, entertaining, touching and quirky programme. Second series they decide to open a strip club and use it a background location at every opportunity. Semi naked women dancing when there aren't even anyone else there but staff. That is so not how it works.

Viewing from a more feminist perspective has increased my appreciation for some films/series though. With historical dramas (inc many classic book adaptations) it's about better understanding how women lived in the past. A while ago we watched a couple of Jane Austens; DH for some reason hadn't really twigged before about how women had to marry for money, entails etc, it was good to see him having that revelation.

We've just finished watching Gentleman Jack, and recently Vida and Halt and Catch Fire. All interesting in different ways, all easily and frequently pass the Bechedel test.

@RuffleCrow

I love both Miranda and Fleabag and I think PWB was deliberately subverting the formula of the former to create something fresh. Everyone draws to some extent on what's gone before, even if it's a reaction to it.

But Fleabag began as a live monologue, so in dramatising it PWB took that as her starting point, presumably not wanting to lose the direct connection with the audience. Other than the fourth wall concept it has nothing at all in common with Miranda.

I just want to bump this thread. It's very good.

@BrandineDelRoy thank you for doing that because I just had a jolly good read!

@ErrolTheDragon

Viewing from a more feminist perspective has increased my appreciation for some films/series though. With historical dramas (inc many classic book adaptations) it's about better understanding how women lived in the past. A while ago we watched a couple of Jane Austens; DH for some reason hadn't really twigged before about how women had to marry for money, entails etc, it was good to see him having that revelation.

We've just finished watching Gentleman Jack, and recently Vida and Halt and Catch Fire. All interesting in different ways, all easily and frequently pass the Bechedel test.

Though quite a few men in Austen have to marry for money as well.

It's often the tension in the story, whatever way it goes - what is marriage really about, money and security, or a kind of fulfilment, or do they go together?

Though quite a few men in Austen have to marry for money as well.
Trying to remember... do any of the men actually have to marry for money to avoid destitution, or is that just easier than getting a job, which at least wasn't impossible for them?