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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Unisex Primary Toilets

108 replies

Yellowleaf · 29/09/2020 06:41

This is my first time posting and I am looking for some advice. My daughter is in unit one in primary school and I have just found out she now has to share the toilets with boys. She told me as she said she can’t go to the loo all day as when she goes in the loo boys have come in and she then can’t go. I’m worried as she is holding it in all day & this could possibly cause a urine infection etc.

I am going to speak with the teacher as I’m unhappy with the changes made for a few reasons & think single sex sex toilets should be available.
Also the parents were not told of the change to mixed sex toilets. It seems from speaking to my daughter that it has something to do with changes due to Covid. Sorry if I am waffling, I was wondering if anyone can tell
me if there are any specific guidelines/rules that need to be in place when toilets are unisex? I would just like to know the facts before I speak to the teacher. Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
JellyFishSquish · 29/09/2020 14:30

It never happens
They are just uptight, after all they have mixed sex loos at home
If it DID happen, it could just as easily be a girl doing it
Their own fault if they insist on not using the loos and get a urinary infection
Their own fault that they are in discomfort for much of the school day because they are too shy to use mixed loos

So much blame, and these are our daughters people! We can do better.

JellyFishSquish · 29/09/2020 14:32

Oh and I missed:

"prove it"

OverTheRainbow88 · 29/09/2020 14:44

Or, another perspective, someone has seen the thread title under feminism, have shown an interest, are willing to learn, this forum could be used to educate others and not belittle them.

I’m not too proud to say I had no idea the numbers were so high and that I’m
Genuinely shocked and have changed my opinion.

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/09/2020 14:55

As much as I'm.glad you have changed your mind rainbow

It does still remain that girls amd women saying NO failed to be enough

It should not be a case of having to prove girls sre actually raped at school in order to be worthy of single sex provision which is their legal right over the age of 8. Regardless of whether all the boys using them are angels or none of the girls using them have been advised or suffer from painful heavy periods.

No should be enough. Always. Akd our kids shouldn't be put in this position

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/09/2020 14:55

Abused not advised.

Stupid phone

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/09/2020 14:57

I'm.not necessarily talking about you BTW rainbow

There are many posters and even organisations that seek to thibk that women should have to disclose their abuse in order to exercise their legal rights . Angry

Sexnotgender · 29/09/2020 14:59

Thank you for actually looking at the evidence and understanding the issue.

Girls feeling uncomfortable and saying no really should be sufficient though.

I will also say the way you word your posts is awfully similar to lots of people who are just shit stirring on here so apologies if I was a little forthright in my reply!

wellbehavedwomen · 29/09/2020 15:25

@OverTheRainbow88

Or, another perspective, someone has seen the thread title under feminism, have shown an interest, are willing to learn, this forum could be used to educate others and not belittle them.

I’m not too proud to say I had no idea the numbers were so high and that I’m
Genuinely shocked and have changed my opinion.

Bless you, thank you, and I'm sorry to have been so angry.

We get trolled here a lot - A LOT - and I'm afraid that makes everyone cumulatively more and more fed up - so when one more person arrives to say it, they get it both barrels. But I should have presented it all calmly and in good faith, and I am sorry that I didn't.

This is especially the case, given I first came to Mumsnet determined to set everyone straight on how unreasonable they were being re. trans issues. Luckily, I went to check their claims, all confident I could disprove them with real data... only to find that I couldn't. So I didn't post. Otherwise, I'd have been in your shoes, only much, much more so! So really, this has been a wake up call to me, too. I should have been calm, polite, and provided you with links. Again, I'm sorry.

Welcome. Smile

JellyFishSquish · 29/09/2020 15:28

I am sorry, OverTheRainbow88, but I do get ranty.

You are quite right, lots of people come onto this board and see a different perspective and learn from it. Some others have been known to come with an agenda, happy to bait. Can be hard to tell who is who.

caughtalightsneeze · 29/09/2020 15:29

I genuinely can’t see why mixed toilets is an issue for any sex.

I note that you have read the report and have changed your mind. But I did just want to mention for others reading who also don't see why females want single sex spaces that you don't have to understand it yourself to accept that it is the case.

JellyFishSquish · 29/09/2020 15:31

I see we are both apologising! Yes, welcome Over

canigohomenow · 29/09/2020 15:51

God, I hate public toilets with a vehement passion.

I don't see why they can't just implement single-roomed cubicles - one toilet and one sink.

I imagine there are also a whole host of boys who don't like sharing with girls either. Talk to the teacher about the kids denying her access.

ChloeCrocodile · 29/09/2020 16:12

To those whose schools are implementing mixed sex toilets due to covid - this is simply not a good enough reason. Covid "bubbles" do not override existing law. Children aged 8 and up have the right to single sex facilities. If they are ignoring this rule for covid reasons, what other safeguarding rules are they ignoring? Making a complaint is absolutely the right thing to do, despite this being a ridiculously difficult time for schools (I'm a teacher).

And absolute bollox to say that a school with mixed sex toilets is good at safeguarding, unless the mixed sex toilets are fully enclosed individual rooms rather than cubicles.

OverTheRainbow88 · 29/09/2020 16:13

Thank you for understanding, I will continue to read and learn, but will keep quiet for now!

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/09/2020 16:16

And absolute bollox to say that a school with mixed sex toilets is good at safeguarding, unless the mixed sex toilets are fully enclosed individual rooms rather than cubicles

Tbh fully enclosed rooms present their own problems.

They can get shoved in. They can get locked in

Any kid with asthma, allergies, epilepsy, diabetes etc could collaps/faint/become weak and you wouldn't see their feet sticking out gap at the bottom of the door.

Sexnotgender · 29/09/2020 16:45

@OverTheRainbow88

Thank you for understanding, I will continue to read and learn, but will keep quiet for now!
Please don’t keep quiet, ask questions and engage with us.
Kit19 · 29/09/2020 16:48

Thank you Rainbow & I echo sexnotgender, do ask about stuff :)

electricstorm · 29/09/2020 17:33

Most schools don't have the facilities to have a male and female toilet for every bubble and therefore it's easier to just have unisex toilets. They are unable to share toilets with people outside of their bubbles so having boys and girls going together just makes sense at the moment.

As you've said it is a Covid issue and I'm sure the school will return to their normal toilets once this is over.

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/09/2020 17:41

As you've said it is a Covid issue and I'm sure the school will return to their normal toilets once this is over

Not if they have been stonewalled they won't.

And covid doesn't trump all existing laws. Girls peripds aren't stopping cos of corona.disabled children still need to pee and share outside their bubbles

Existing toilets turned unisex will be u lawful.

Would you expect a burglar to get let go cos of covid cos a cell mate takes him out the bubble?

The law is the law

Coldwinterahead1 · 29/09/2020 17:55

My DS is terrified of using the girls loo at school, he's not going until he gets home. It's not just a problem that affects girls.

Pudmyboy · 29/09/2020 22:07

I thought mixed sex toilets were against law/guidance? Telling her to 'get over it' is not listening to her or addressing her concerns: it IS a big deal!

EarthSight · 29/09/2020 22:43

@GeorgiaGirl52

What is the big deal about toilets? Don't most people have unisex toilets? Does everyone have at least two at home, marked "His" and "Hers" like embroidered pillowcases? You go in, close the door, lock it and do your business. I would be more concerned that the little boys using the toilet would be less than clean and wonder who was cleaning the toilet and how often.
Talk about grossly misunderstanding or misrepresenting the issue.

Toilets at home are entirely different to a mixed sex toilet elsewhere. Why? Because hopefully, everyone knows and trusts the people who use their facilities at home. We're mostly talking about friends & family and there often wouldn't even be the space for mixed sex toilets even if they wanted some! You can't possibly compare toilet use between family members with mixed toilets at schools. It's ridiculous. It might not be as much of an issue at primary school but it definitely is when they're older. It's particularly important to girls. I definitely wouldn't have wanted to share toilets with any of the boys at my school. Just horrible.

GeorgiaGirl52 · 29/09/2020 23:16

I have determined from the snarky responses that our school situation is different. In kindergarten and elementary (ages 5-11) there is one bathroom per classroom. It is a bath ROOM with full walls and a door that locks and a sink with a soap dispenser. Both sexes use it and even the teacher although the toilets are a little lower than standard.
From middle school on (ages 12-18) there are the large rooms with block cubicles and lines of sinks on the wall. Those, naturally are single sex.

So GrabtharsHammerWhatASavings I am neither disingenuous not stupid. I am merely unfamiliar with school toilets in Britain. You are unfamiliar with school facilities in America.

334bu · 30/09/2020 00:55

Sorry you found our responses snarky. However, the OP did state that her daughter was obliged to share toilets (plural) with boys, thus making it clear that the situation was akin to the set up in your middle schools and not a single occupancy separate room as in your junior schools.
I am glad to see that you agree with the rest of the posters that such toilet blocks should be single sex.

Greencoatblue · 30/09/2020 01:29

I am merely unfamiliar with school toilets in Britain. You are unfamiliar with school facilities in America.
Given that mumsnet is a UK based site perhaps it should be taken that the default setting is UK? If in doubt, probably best to try and find out what the usual practice on any given subject is in the host country. Posters cannot be expected to know where other posters live unless it is explicitly stated.