BBC Sunday Morning Live - Rose of Dawn, Proud Trust, Angela Epstein, Alex Clare-Young

[FindTheTruth]

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000n22m/sunday-morning-live-series-11-episode-14

GRA discussion starts 18 minutes into the programme on iPlayer

Thanks for this, OP. The lady from Proud Trust is talking absolute bobbins.

And the presenter thinks a consultation is a poll or vote. That's not how it works, mate.

yes... the consultation wasn't a referendum and it got a level of automated responses.

Interesting point that of the 108k responses, 7k were trans. I would be genuinely interested in an independent mass survey to find out what people really think privately without fear of backlash. I'd be interested to find out what all trans people think, all LGB people think and all people....

And which facilites would non binary people use if they got legal recognition? Bearing in mind that although there has been an influx of 'gender neutral' facilties, the vast majority are still sex segregated. What benefits does being officially recognised as non binary give? Somebody make it make sense!

Crispin Blunt noted, in his emergency question in the House of commons this week that half a million trans people were crushingly disappointed with the outcome of the consultation. How come only 7,000 of the half million bothered to complete the consultation if it was so important?

Haven't listened yet and may not get a chance today, but for those who have it would probably be worth complaining to the BBC about characterizing the consultation as a pool of vote. It wasn't in any way, for so many reasons, indeed consultations are often the way the Government can ferret out considerations that they have not yet thought. it can allow the quietest interested voices to be heard. Even if it is only one person, it could change the course of a policy.

*poll

I'm very disappointed in the BBC. Language is extremely important, and as a public service broadcaster, they should know this.

The person who did the research needs to be pulled up on this one. I hope lots of complaints have gone in.

consultations are often the way the Government can ferret out considerations that they have not yet thought. it can allow the quietest interested voices to be heard. Even if it is only one person, it could change the course of a policy.

perfectly put. listen to the quiet voices. the controversial voices. not just the rich, loud and powerful

The Proud Trust woman:

"White people invented the two genders."

Honestly, when are they going to realise they just look mad?

Thought Alex was sweet, until they appropriated intersex conditions......AGAIN.

Rose of Dawn playing a blinder again there.

@Escapeplanning

Exactly what i thought. 7000!
Maybe stonewall and Crispin blunt need to reassess their 200 - 500,000 figure.

"White people invented the two genders."

It has got to be one of the most racist, sexist, historically-illiterate arguments I have ever come across.

The idea that other races and cultures did not distinguish between male and female before the White Man arrived is ludicrous. What, did everyone in other societies sit in a circle and flip a coin to decide which people would get pregnant? Or were they utterly baffled as to which people had periods and got pregnant until the White Man arrived and explained biology to them?

Anyone who propagates this idea is either very very dim or very very racist. Perhaps both.

www.theproudtrust.org/training-and-education/primary-education-resources/trans-positive-education-for-primary-schools/alien-nation/

This is the trans teaching material for PRIMARY schools being sold by the Proud Trust. They boast about 500 schools.

This material doesn't comply with the new guidance.

So Alex was a transmasculine non-binary person. What is anyone meant to do with that information? I think it's fine they define themselves like that but I don't understand what it relates to, presumably it's a medical condition of some sort? A belief system? I don't know what rights they think they need.

Wow, that alien nation book. I wish someone would explain to me what non-binary means in a meaningful way before we start teaching it to 5 year olds.

Transmasc Enby church minister, no less. A smorgasbord of metaphysical delights. We should definitely be making laws about all that. Though, I'm not sure what they'd involve other than "Good for you, crack on."

So Alex was a transmasculine non-binary person. What is anyone meant to do with that information?

Make a mental note that Alex isn't the sort of female who can be expected to shut up and make the tea? As opposed to all those other females who just exist to look pretty and serve.