video clip of GRA discussion in the House of Lords Friday 25 Sep (following HoC 24 Sep)

[FindTheTruth]

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/c177722d-a72c-42ad-a260-f6e50785c48d?in=11:46:19&out=11:57:49

Urgent questions on GRA in the HoL following HoC the previous day.

Some intelligent questions vs. House of Commons

10 minutes long

Mentions:

• Women's wards in hospitals, refuges, prisons, sport

• Hate whipped up by some members of this house

• 'Self declaration would be used by men' - does the SoC believe British men are uniquely abusive? - Answer - this is a legal process

• Lord Young - I want a fair deal for trans people. I believe the statement is a balanced approach. Will there be further guidance for NHS wards?

• Lord Hunt - a number of public bodies have made policies that make it impossible to provide single sex spaces under the equality act - Will the minister urgently look at guidance to those public bodies?

HoL script, Hansard here: hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2020-09-25/debates/9AD0274C-9FFC-4E71-AF42-755A601B2C3D/GenderRecognitionActConsultation

Urgent Question re Gender Recognition Act Consultation

Answers by: The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education and Department for International Trade (Baroness Berridge) (Con)

Baroness Barker (LD)
Digitalising a system that dehumanises our fellow citizens is not kindness; it is callous and cynical, as the repeated use of the phrase “trans people and women” shows. I have one question for the Minister. Do this Government intend to amend the Equality Act or any of the guidance issued under it—yes or no?

Helpful question there from Lord Hunt in particular.

does the SoC believe British men are uniquely abusive?

Answer - yes we do, HTH.

Berridge (and presumably therefore the government) appears to be resistant to the idea of doing much about the current state of erosion of single sex services, spaces and sports; which is disappointing.

She makes it clear that there will be no change to the Equality Act 2010, but there isn't going to be a from-the-top review of what has already gone wrong.

Lord Triesman (Lab) [V]
Will the Minister join those of us who deplore the trolling and the vile threats to JK Rowling and to other women who have expressed their concerns, largely to try to protect single-sex services?

Lord Moynihan (Con)
I hope the Government continue to agree with me that, while in all sport there should be a zero-tolerance policy towards transphobia, it is right that the case of the trans community is not breached where prohibition or restriction of their participation is necessary to secure fair competition or the safety of competitors, including that of transsexual people themselves.

@MichelleofzeResistance

Helpful question there from Lord Hunt in particular.

Yes, Ann Sinnott's legal case, to ensure that EA2010 guidance accurately reflects the Act, if successful will hopefully influence public bodies policies that make it impossible to provide single sex spaces under the equality act

Berridge (and presumably therefore the government) appears to be resistant to the idea of doing much about the current state of erosion of single sex services, spaces and sports

I suspect it will get tackled and if so it's a smart move to separate it from this GRA consultation. Get this passed through . ..

OP thanks for posting this, it’s fascinating to see who is actively disregarding womens concerns. There is much work to be done if these men (& sadly some women) in positions of influence are so blinkered on why women need single sex provision.

it’s fascinating to see who is actively disregarding womens concerns.

Yes! it cuts across party lines on all sides of this. It is interesting. Some brave people and cowards too...

Thanks for this. I read the hansard transcript. Some labour Lords really get it, & understand the issue with the guidence & local policies that basically prevent services being genuinely single sex. They sounded like they get that there's a balance of needs here, with conflicting needs of two different groups.

But the baroness who doesn't like the phrase 'trans people and women'!! Trying to make it impossible to articulate that conflict of needs.

There is a view that LT may be playing a blinder and letting Ann Sinnot's case actually sort out the problem for her, so she can get single sex spaces and services better enshrined in guidance without her having to do anything much.
Wouldn't surprise me!

@Manderleyagain

Thanks for this. I read the hansard transcript. Some labour Lords really get it, & understand the issue with the guidence & local policies that basically prevent services being genuinely single sex. They sounded like they get that there's a balance of needs here, with conflicting needs of two different groups.

But the baroness who doesn't like the phrase 'trans people and women'!! Trying to make it impossible to articulate that conflict of needs.

Baroness Barker is a LibDem, says it all.

@TheFleegleHasLanded

There is a view that LT may be playing a blinder and letting Ann Sinnot's case actually sort out the problem for her, so she can get single sex spaces and services better enshrined in guidance without her having to do anything much. Wouldn't surprise me!

I did wonder.

Thanks for sharing this OP really interesting

Thanks very interesting. Missed this completely.

@growinggreyer

does the SoC believe British men are uniquely abusive?

Answer - yes we do, HTH.

It took it, from the use of the word uniquely, that he meant other countries, who allow self ID, aren't saying it so why are we saying it. Hopefully problems from those countries will become more evident before this gets reviewed again, say if Labour (or LibDem!) get in.

When does Ann's case go to court?

We don’t know that it will yet.

On 24th Ann wrote:
“We have received responses from both Defendants.

Lawyers and I now closely reading and will update you within the next few days.”

Prior to that she wrote:

“If the Defendants capitulate and meet our stipulated requirements the case will end. Our requirements: (i) amend all unlawful guidance, whether in guidance documents or in the Statutory Code of Practice; (ii) pin a prominent announcement to the home page of their websites for a specified period; (iii) inform a specified list of organisations directly.

If the Defendants decide to fight, we go forward to the second stage which is to seek permission to proceed to a Judicial Review.

At this point, I will reactivate the campaign for donations.”

Looking forward to an update on the EHRC and GEO responses and prepared to donate again.

Thanks for all the links @FindTheTruth. So good to see so many Labour peers standing up for women's rights. Disappointing that the Government minister was a bit wishy washy, especially replying to Lord Hunt's concerns that the guidance on Equality Act single-sex exceptions was too weak, by saying there are no plans to update the guidance. I am also ready to donate again to Ann Sinnott's very important legal action against GEO and EHRC if they do not update the guidance to accurately reflect the law.

Thanks @Sunkisses

completely agree that it's good to see labour and cross party support for women's rights...

The latest tactic (it might not be latest, I've only just noticed it!) is positioning the protection of women's rights as 'alt right'.. another thread on here about VOX today... and it was stated by an activist on Women's Hour this morning - also on a thread.

Yes Anne Sinnott's case is key... the other thread like this (for House of Commons video) had theories that Gov is waiting for the outcome of her case

Eyeroll at this, from Lord Collins of Highbury:

In July, the APPG on Global Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Rights presented a report to Liz Truss in which we sought to deliver reassurance around trans people and deliver trans rights. Did the Minister see or consider that report? Can she explain why it was rejected, bearing in mind that it was also backed by the LGBT groups of the main political parties, including her own? This decision has caused huge hurt to the trans community, and Labour believes that it is simply wrong

The utter disbelief that anyone's views other than TRAs (and you can bet they were all TW) could count. He doesn't even disregard women's views; he's oblivious to the idea that anyone should even consider them in the first place.