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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance

999 replies

umbel · 24/09/2020 15:52

Updated government guidance, released today!!!

Updated relationships, sex and health curriculum guidance
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napody · 25/09/2020 07:47

Also I would love to shake the hand of the person that wrote this crystal clear guidance. Clarity over the terms sex and gender in abundance. Many teachers and headteachers will learn something just reading it.

persistentwoman · 25/09/2020 07:53

@sultanasofa

I would love to hear an insider account of what has been going on inside Whitehall. It is clear that the government position has massively pivoted. I'm imagining a series of free and frank discussions over the last several months. A memoir from a civil servant or politician telling the inside story would be fascinating. The progress has been so agonisingly slow, and now there are changes on many fronts almost overnight! I wish that the process could have been more transparent so that we could have followed the twists and turns.
I suspect that all the forthcoming judicial reviews will have focused minds considerably. It's always been evident that political groups having such influence on children in schools was breaching guidelines on neutrality, especially when dealing with such sensitive issues and the groups openly breaching safeguarding guidelines.
sultanasofa · 25/09/2020 07:59

Thank goodness for the judicial review process. And a massive thank you to the courageous individuals pursuing judicial reviews, to the organisations and lawyers supporting them, and every person who contributed to the crowdfunders. Hallelujah.

OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer · 25/09/2020 08:09

And there's nothing in the new guidelines that will prevent a school referring a trans child to Mermaids, particularly as Mermaids are quite clear that they abide by the guidelines.

Why are you assuming that an organisation's own assessment of whether they abide by the guidelines is going to be definitive here?

KnightsofColumbusThatHurt · 25/09/2020 08:10

If adults can't explain it to other adults in a way that makes sense, how the hell are schools meant to teach it to children?

This was another thing I raised with my kids HT - the lesson plan they put out in the consultation about gender was so vague, woolly and contradictory, that I just didn't get what it would actually look like as a lesson, particularly if the children started asking questions.

WomenAndVulvas · 25/09/2020 08:13

That's fantastic, I'm so relieved!
I wonder what happened to bring this change about??

persistentwoman · 25/09/2020 08:16

WomenAndVulvas
I suspect having a senior civil servant in charge at the DfE who has not received rewards from Stonewall may be a factor.
And of course that basic principle of putting the needs of children and their safeguarding first rather than adult dogma.

umbel · 25/09/2020 08:26

PronounssheRa
I wonder how many children have been directed to the Tavistock based on non conformance to gender stereotypes, which mermaids is now reverse ferreting on. I also wonder if individuals will take legal action.

Indeed! And make no mistake, this is precisely what they advise, even when parents explicitly state their child has never expressed any desire to “be the opposite sex” - get yourself onto the Tavistock waiting list ASAP (we’ll refer you if your GP refuses), demand that the school allows access to opposite sex changing rooms and toilets, suggest to your child that they might like to change their name and pronouns. They said all of this and more to us over 4 years ago, and have only become more entrenched in this ideology since. Mermaids peaked me in that moment.

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NeurotrashWarrior · 25/09/2020 09:14

The only bit in the guidance I query is what is a "transgender relationship?"

NeurotrashWarrior · 25/09/2020 09:17

"All pupils should receive teaching on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) relationships during their school years. Secondary schools should include LGBT content in their teaching. Primary schools are strongly encouraged, and enabled, when teaching about different types of family, to include families with same sex parents."

At least it's clarifying that primary schools should look at same sex parents.

Where there might be genuine situations where parents are actually trans themselves.

But I would hope that same or opposite sex relationships is the focus.

SerenityNowwwww · 25/09/2020 09:18

I still don’t get the gender element involvement.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 25/09/2020 09:23

I think we may also be seeing the legacy of the Kids Company fallout. If any of the court cases go as expected there would some very serious questions about yet another children’s charity being allowed to drive the official agenda with no oversight.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 25/09/2020 09:25

That should read
children’s charity or other campaigning group

NewlyGranny · 25/09/2020 09:26

Hallelujah!!!

Aesopfable · 25/09/2020 09:27

If schools must not work with organisations that promote gender non-conformity=trans then that is not just not inviting them into schools or using their materials, it also means not using them to train teachers.

PronounssheRa · 25/09/2020 09:33

The move to 'of course no child is born in the wrong body' surely means assigned female/assigned male at birth nonsense should end, because that is based on the wrong body narrative.

I think mermaids Hq is going to be very busy today

Babdoc · 25/09/2020 09:33

No, Swiftnicola, there is sadly no chance of getting this in Scotland. Sturgeon is pro TRA, and will double down to accentuate difference from England. She will spin this as nasty English Tory bigotry and bleat about how progressive, kind and woke Scotland is by contrast. Makes me sick.

WhatWouldJKRDo · 25/09/2020 09:40

It’s fantastic to see this revised advice for schools. About time the tide turned!

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 25/09/2020 09:50

@PronounssheRa

The move to 'of course no child is born in the wrong body' surely means assigned female/assigned male at birth nonsense should end, because that is based on the wrong body narrative.

I think mermaids Hq is going to be very busy today

Shall I suggest they move to AFAC - Assigned Female at Conception. Wink
Datun · 25/09/2020 09:53

As for Stonewall they mostly train teachers as well, and will likely continue to do so as I'm fairly confident they would be compliant with the guidelines (and if not can tweak them until they are, it's quite possible to educate people about trans kids without talking about gendr stereotypes. Gender stereotypes don't really have anything to do with being trans which is more about an internal sense of who you are).

"Tweak" 😁

Good luck writing a single guideline about something which requires evidence but has no evidence base whatsoever, which you can't describe anyway and you're not allowed to use any of the words that you've been using to describe what are you now claiming has always been wrong.

Tweak indeed.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/09/2020 09:55

Shall I suggest they move to AFAC - Assigned Female at Conception

No, just CF - Conceived Female. Grin

BabyItsAWildWorld · 25/09/2020 09:59

I want to start using this to make challenges but need to get some things clear in my head first:

How does this challenge the Trans Toolkits currently out there in schools and LAs? - can we use this to challenge their removal?

How do we use this to challenge the need for single sex provision in schools where the Trans toolkits were advocating for gender identity provision?

I understand I can now challenge the use of materials and referral to some organisations, or at least advice that people must be sure these organisations abide by the government guidance.

I do think though that Mermaids and Stonewall are just going to try to tweak things to fit with this, as if all suddenly magically OK! We can see that already, and it's possible they'll get away with it. Saying 'you used to say' won't wash I don't think.

How will this fit with No Outsiders?

Thanks to anyone who can help me get my head around things before I get out there Grin!

Aesopfable · 25/09/2020 10:00

Must not work with these organisations and also political partisanship. That. Must surely bring Stonewall's schools champion scheme to an end?

IloveJKRowling · 25/09/2020 10:00

Also I would love to shake the hand of the person that wrote this crystal clear guidance. Clarity over the terms sex and gender in abundance. Many teachers and headteachers will learn something just reading it.

Yes, so very, very clear and difficult to argue against without exposing yourself as basically in favour of harming children by forcing them into boxes. Whoever wrote this should be very proud - they are likely saving a large number of children from harm.

I cannot quite express the profound sense of deep relief at reading this.

IloveJKRowling · 25/09/2020 10:02

And how Mermaids can write this I don't know:

"It is absolutely wrong for any adult to press their own prejudice onto young minds; "

Weren't they the ones with the jelly baby scale from Barbie to GI Joe?