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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Liz Truss WILL make a statement today

273 replies

TheFleegleHasLanded · 22/09/2020 09:22

commonsbusiness.parliament.uk/document/40760/html

Or someone will on her behalf.

My MP said GRA statement coming today.

Liz Truss WILL make a statement today
OP posts:
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tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 22/09/2020 15:37

mayswear what you said Confused whilst I'm really pleased self ID is dead, I too don't like the way the statement panders to kindness to trans individuals instead of a more balanced write up outlining why single sex exemptions are important and should trump the latter. The statement actually says character should trump biological sex, WTF?!

It's definitely a start though and I feel like my afternoon coffee has a helping of optimism in it for the first time in a long while.

Well done you awesome MNers ... you did good Thanks

MadamBatty · 22/09/2020 15:40

Now I’m depressed. I’m in the wokest little country in the world, Ireland. Self ID was brought in here with no consultation. We have no problems though, nit a one.

SerenityNowwwww · 22/09/2020 15:41

I don’t think Ireland has anything on Canada...

zanahoria · 22/09/2020 16:14

Labour rounded on the government’s response, accusing Downing Street of failing trans people. The shadow women and equalities secretary, Marsha de Cordova, said: “After three years of toxic debate, it is deeply disappointing that the government have let trans people down at the last minute."

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/sep/22/uk-government-drops-gender-self-identification-plan-for-trans-people

hesaidshesaidwhat · 22/09/2020 16:15

I understand that this is a victory, albeit small, because self id has not been approved however it seems to me that there is nothing there that will force organisations to change anything. As usual women have to continue to be the police in this matter by insisting spaces are single sex, etc. Many women do not have the confidence to do this.

I must admit I still don't see how this gets around the situation where a trans person is quesionned, there seems to be an unwritten rule that they can't be asked if they have a GRC, so we are still where we were?

SerenityNowwwww · 22/09/2020 16:15

Labour don’t seem to give two hoots for women and girls being let down.

TheFleegleHasLanded · 22/09/2020 16:16

There is definitely more to come.

OP posts:
zanahoria · 22/09/2020 16:16

" For example do any school boys have a GRC? if not then school girls can have their privacy back."

I believe you have to be 18

zanahoria · 22/09/2020 16:17

Labour have walked into a trap

Kit19 · 22/09/2020 16:19

Indeed they have zanahoria - they should be thanking their stars that because if the new restrictions announced, it won’t get too much attention

Ok another note JKR continues to be amazing

Liz Truss WILL make a statement today
Malahaha · 22/09/2020 16:20

@SerenityNowwwww

I don’t think Ireland has anything on Canada...
That's true. Outside of Dublin there's not even a whisper of trans ideology. I recently went to a clinic in Dublin and was pleased to see that the registration form asked for sex.
zanahoria · 22/09/2020 16:23

Labour are such mugs and Liz Truss knows ir. The Tories proposed this then dropped it as it was unpopular but Labour are sticking with it.

MichelleofzeResistance · 22/09/2020 16:25

it is deeply disappointing that the government have let trans people down at the last minute

By not ritually sacrificing women and sex based rights? Hmm

BettyFilous · 22/09/2020 16:35

@MichelleofzeResistance

it is deeply disappointing that the government have let trans people down at the last minute

By not ritually sacrificing women and sex based rights? Hmm

Try being a woman for the last few years and the monumental sense (and practice) of the government, every god damned political party and most public sector bodies and service providers not giving a fuck about your rights, wellbeing or safety....
MichelleofzeResistance · 22/09/2020 16:40

The real balance of oppression is really quite obvious in the responses today.

The political lobby involved: this is outrageous we didn't get everything we wanted, we've been let down

women: thank God, we actually were allowed a nod towards noticing we exist and there are issues here

MilleniumHallsWalledGarden · 22/09/2020 16:41

Indeed MichelleofzeResistance. It's very obvious where the expectation and power habitually lies.

GiantKitten · 22/09/2020 17:02

Haven’t RTFT yet so apols if it’s already been posted but I just spotted this in James Kirkup’s piece Smile

www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-women-won-the-war-against-gender-self-id-

Liz Truss WILL make a statement today
gardenbird48 · 22/09/2020 17:05

I get so confused when the activists call for de-medicalisation of being trans - if someone has gender dysphoria so that their deeply felt body image does not match their actual body, and their end goal is surgery and hormone treatment, how is that not a medical/mental health condition? No one else is allowed to self diagnose for major surgery and medical treatment.

If they don't have gender dysphoria, presumably meaning that their body image does match their body, then how are they trans?

I've been trying to work this out for 6 months now and I'm still none the wiser. Am I over-simplifying?

nauticant · 22/09/2020 17:09

I think there are reasons to be cheerful.

Trans activists have been given the answer "no" in a very public way and in a way that appears to balance opposing needs and have compassion. This is a new thing. This isn't supposed to happen, almost like the Law of Gravity the flow of demands and responses is only supposed to go one way. Other countries will take note.

We've been told for years that if demands aren't met disaster will ensue. OK, the demands weren't met, is there going to be disaster now?

If Stonewall or whoever want to explain why the outcome of the consultation is wrong then I think compared to the past few years they'll have to present specific arguments. I think "you're all horribly mean" is going to be far less potent now.

The position of the Government is strongly indicative that trans means gender dysphoria. Let's see arguments presented by trans activists that this is too narrow and make clear that gender dysphoria is simply an option. Do this while the public is now a bit more attuned to this and they'll start going "Hang on, what is this?"

Time is not on the side of the trans activists. As time passes the consequences of cross-dressers and the like being within the scope of the definition of trans will start to emerge. They have already but this is currently under the radar as far as the public is concerned. It only needs one incident in the changing rooms of a large UK department store to get the public interested. GRA amendments were supposed to be done and dusted before adverse outcomes could become apparent.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 22/09/2020 17:11

I wonder how my local MP (Lab) will react given the someone patronising response I got to my concerns.

This is far to complex an issue to be decided on Twitter. There is a complex interaction of rights and women have fought hard for our protections.

nauticant · 22/09/2020 17:16

An alternative TL:DR version of my post:

The best asset of the trans activists was momentum. With momentum "be kind", "the wrong side of history", and "shut up bigot" were often tricky to argue against. They've lost that momentum now. Without it the scope for argument and counter-argument might be far greater.

Eo91 · 22/09/2020 17:30

@gardenbird48

I get so confused when the activists call for de-medicalisation of being trans - if someone has gender dysphoria so that their deeply felt body image does not match their actual body, and their end goal is surgery and hormone treatment, how is that not a medical/mental health condition? No one else is allowed to self diagnose for major surgery and medical treatment.

If they don't have gender dysphoria, presumably meaning that their body image does match their body, then how are they trans?

I've been trying to work this out for 6 months now and I'm still none the wiser. Am I over-simplifying?

You're not oversimplifying it. I've been trying to figure it out too, the only answers I've been able to get are flouncing away or being called transphobic (oh the irony :/).

Dysphoria shouldn't be demedicalised and anyone pushing for that is an instant red flag for me.

nauticant · 22/09/2020 17:34

A bigger red flag for me is when some trans activists claim gender dysphoria is actually an umbrella term that includes "gender euphoria".

It only takes a moment's thought to see what that's about.

Eo91 · 22/09/2020 17:40

I hate that term, it ridicules all the distress transsexuals struggle through and makes it obvious that there's other reasons behind their transition/activism.

stumbledin · 22/09/2020 17:46

I think that this may seem like a victory but as someone said on facebook it could also be a "holding position".

I dont think it means self id is off the agenda. Trans activists wont let it, and once Covid and Brexit are over (which could be a decade its true) the issue of self id will come up again.

Or the Tories lose the next election and a Labour Government with support from Lib Dems, Greens and SNP being through emergency legislation. it will probably be part of the campaign material, undoing horrid uncaring Tory decisions.

So happy for everyone to be happy - for a day! - but dont let your guard down. Hmm