Liz Truss WILL make a statement today

[TheFleegleHasLanded]

commonsbusiness.parliament.uk/document/40760/html

Or someone will on her behalf.

My MP said GRA statement coming today.

*and actually now I think of it, how can there possibly be any dysphoria if a person chooses to identify as their birth sex for half the week?

I really really can't get my head around that.*

As someone else on here or Twitter said, there is no dysphoria it's a lifestyle choice and why should that be legislated for?

@FemaleAndLearning

I popped on twitter to see what Fair play for Women were saying and got distracted. Saw this tweet below and thought I had better come over to join in the back patting, but you are all quite sombre! On another tweet someone has added up the followers of FPFW, Woman's Place and Transgender place and saying how few there are, yet so many women can't be on twitter! Also complaints about the 20,000 FPFW templates and how these were likely submitted by just 200 people copying and pasting. I find it incredible the mirroring that goes on. Anyway thank you to this board for opening my eyes, enabling me to go off and do my own research and contribute to this consultation. I can look my daughters in the eye now and say I made a difference, but still much more to do.

'sure sounds like a group with an agenda trying to skew the results'

O really?!

I would say THAT was surely the multiple copy pasted prefilled replies, encouraged from both minors, and people who are not in the UK..to me? Actual thought through answers are clearly a few hundred women replying over and over again?! Thing took me near 3 hours IIRC, honestly, fairly sure not many of us have the time to do this over and over. Of course, we should just have been making up email addresses, searching for UK postcodes on google, and pressing 'send' over and over instead..which takes what, a few mins? That would show that we were genuine eh? Unlucky that that plan didn't work, but it was never going to given the nature of a consultation (clues in the name). No need to pretend that those who filled in the consultation properly are some tiny minority who were spending hours and hours filling in the same thing over and over for kicks. IF we were trying to skew the results, we would have done a stonewall/mermaids and had a 'add name and click me' form for quick entries.

Otherwise what is a transsexual?

Good question.

I’m just enjoying watching all the toys flying out of prams on Twitter.

@JemimaShore

Well I'm pleased.

There is more to do - Liz Truss has confirmed today that self ID won't go ahead, and that women are legally entitled to single sex spaces, based o their biological sex.

But companies, schools, sports etc seem to have policies that act as though self ID is law - so this needs to be challenged.

Exactly. EHRC, Stonewall and Mermaids have been giving organisations, including a number of police forces, bogus information and behaving as though self ID was law.

www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/09/71296/

The medical interventions don't even improve mental health.

@testing987654321

TalkingToLangClegInTheDark

Am sat in the corner doing my best not to be an Eeyore!

I do feel more like celebrating it all now, on reflection.

I’m starting to see what so many others are saying. Not celebrating where we are now, per se, but celebrating the achievement of all of us women who wouldn’t sit down and shut up like they wanted us to and expected us to. Celebrating the fact that a few years ago only one side in this had a voice, and now we have one too.

We have indeed accomplished something major. As LangClegsInSpace put it:

We have successfully opposed a change to primary legislation and that is not to be sniffed at.

Well done all of us.

@EwwSprouts

*and actually now I think of it, how can there possibly be any dysphoria if a person chooses to identify as their birth sex for half the week?

I really really can't get my head around that.*

As someone else on here or Twitter said, there is no dysphoria it's a lifestyle choice and why should that be legislated for?

There are transgender activists who argue that gender dysphoria is not at all necessary for someone to transition. Gender euphoria is also acceptable, and so is doing it just because one feels like doing it.

One can certainly identify as nonbinary just because that person views themselves as a well-rounded human being while assuming that men and women are walking gender stereotypes. Or that is what I have read.

@KnowingYou

I can't fathom what the BMA are thinking to support any aspect of self-id/concealing birth sex/medical history as it puts their members at huge risk of killing someone accidentally - it is not fair on the trans people and not fair on the doctors.

They don’t. They support concealing it from people who don’t need to know. Original birth sex remains noted in primary care records. Hospital referrals are notified confidentially.

The phlebotomist taking someone’s blood doesn’t need to know they were born a different sex (assuming it’s not obvious). But the consultant or doctor treating them and using the result does.

The HCA measuring your weight doesn’t need to know but the consultant using it does. Etc etc.

This isn't true where i work as people can change their health care marker to their desired sex . Also many healthcare workers including phlebotomists do need to know the birth sex to ensure the correct sex is on the forms for the labs. Issues have arisen for booth these reasons where potential danger to the patient has only been narrowly avoided.

Yes talking, we should celebrate! Seeing some of the annoyance on the other side makes me realise this is a non-trivial achievement.

Am feeling proud of the hours that went into my response!

@Diva66

I’m just enjoying watching all the toys flying out of prams on Twitter.

The kickoffs are hard to understand surely

They got exactly what they asked for. The main thing I remember being complained about actually was the cost. They wanted it to be easier, it is easier. As an added bonus, a lot complained about trans healthcare, and that is being improved also.

Absolutely no clue why they are kicking off..unless, what they said they wanted wasn't actually what they wanted, and what they said the problem was was not actually the problem? Surely not..

Am feeling proud of the hours that went into my response!

Me too, testing!

One can certainly identify as nonbinary just because that person views themselves as a well-rounded human being while assuming that men and women are walking gender stereotypes. Or that is what I have read.

That 'assuming' is a big problem for me with gender ideology.

This isn't true where i work as people can change their health care marker to their desired sex . Also many healthcare workers including phlebotomists do need to know the birth sex to ensure the correct sex is on the forms for the labs. Issues have arisen for booth these reasons where potential danger to the patient has only been narrowly avoided.

Thank you Mamello that is what I was told by a (female) GP family member (as well as having been in the news where a patient nearly died)
There are many points in many medical processes at which it is essential for any medical professional to know the actual birth sex of a patient - nurses carry out lots of important procedures and it is not practical for one patient to have two different identities depending on which hcp they are being seen by and then there’s the threat to hcps about ‘outing’ someone without their consent - I think they’ve hit enough to deal with in hospitals without that level of mental gymnastics!

Its totally bonkers that sex can be changed on medical stuff. By all means put some form of marker on saying the patient is trans and prefers he/she pronouns or whatever so that they feel more comfortable, but to actively pretend they are the opposite sex because feelings (or even if they have had 'the operations') is just dangerous.

So why are the EHRC a bitchin’ about this?

We have successfully opposed a change to primary legislation and that is not to be sniffed at.

Well done all of us.

Hear hear!

Just read through the whole document rather than the statement..it said without saying that te FPFW responses were more detailed I think. Was quite amusing how the answers were almost always polar opposites. With stonewall and levelup going for one and fpfw the other, in 100% or close numbers too.

Interesting how many answers attempted to drum the point that nothing would ever be affected by GRA legislation, except for the person getting a GRC getting more ID. Yet, the outcry when the process was made eaxsier and cheaper again, says that that was not what was wanted, and seems to prove that some groups/people were being quite disingenuous in saying that nothing would be affected! Which I am sure will be a huge surprise by those who know their way around this topic. Not surprising at all that stuff like the prison question, fpfw answers focussed on womens safety, while stonewall answers were all about transwomen wanting to be in the female prisons (lets be honest, its not going to be transmen wanting into the mens..lets not pretend thats a 'thing' nor ever will be! not in prisons..)

Overall, not a surprising read really. Much gaslighting, as expected. A lot of '(non trans) women' stuff which initially annoyed me then I realise it was possibly a response to a lot of women criticizing 'cis', but 'non trans' is not that much better really, but they tried! Was quite susprised at the sheer amount of responses via both stonewall and that levelup..had never even heard of levelup..

Has this Open Letter to Liz Truss been posted yet? Of course it's by those who oppose the Government decision.

An open letter from cisgender women

I don't know about this. Sounds like putting the process online is self id, they're just hoping women are too thick to notice. Click this button, hey presto you're a woman!

Maybe we should start naming tw as non-women. Seems accurate enough.

Interesting. The Mail does not seem to have reported Truss’ statement at all. Given they were probably the first to report the issue, albeit as a continuation of their “has the world gone mad” approach, it is odd. In and amongst they produced some good articles, and probably contributed to the Tory decision to halt Theresa May‘s initiative.

A deliberate decision perhaps, based on an assumption that there will be backlash? Let it all slide out on a good day for bad news. The story can be the Labour response? It is an issue that splits Labour and a difficult one for Starmer to ignore in the middle of the annual conference.

I was struck by how few respondents said they were "trans" only 7000. Thought stonewall shrieks it's 1% of the population, when push came to shove its clearly not.

Surely doing this consultation would have been hugely important to trans people..... so if there is only 7000 (a good proportion of them have gone through the GRC process anyway) why the ridiculous bending over backwards over language etc?
These numbers are miniscule. Why have they been able to influence such fundamentals of existence, like the difference between men and women??

And some of them might have been from overseas.

Stonewall’s approach seems to be to use “trans” to lever in a much wider T++++ definition which includes non binary, two spirit, cross dressers, what have you. The Governments own estimate was that self ID could increase numbers from circa 5,000 to up to 500,000.

Why?

And at what cost?

A lot of people: vulnerable women, those with gender dysphoria, those with DSD, autistic teenagers, trans widows, the genuinely confused, elderly wanting to retain dignity, those who are content with their sex but don’t want to conform to gender stereotypes, and more.

The “why” is important. From the outside it makes no sense why such a powerful lobbying organisation would stake its reputation and future on a campaign with so little public support and then refuse to debate. Public acceptance, which is ostensibly the aim, requires debate.

The media haven’t really covered it much. Maybe it’s been pushed back because of all the Covid news?