Listing a health provider as being female/make when they are TW/TM

[Kit19]

As it seems we’re not allowed to discuss specific people on this one, broadening it out

I only want intimate examinations from females and my DH only wants intimate examinations from males

I’d be pissed off in the extreme if my GP practice listed a HCP as female or male and when I arrived they turned out to not be. How does this fit with my right as a patient to have a HCP of the same sex?

Completely agree

this would piss me off too. I am not actually massively bothered but if I was going to the GP to talk about, say, menopause issues, I would want to excerise my rights to speak to a female doctor and would rebook the appt if they turned out to be male. My surgery automatically ask.me if I want to see a female doctor most of the time so I'm not sure how this would work for then. I suspect they would just manipulate it behind the scenes so anyone requesting a female doctor didn't get the trans one and anyone not stating a preference did. Prompting all kinds of discrimination claims and uproar from the trans doctor, no doubt.

I don't actually care most of the time but if I am ever seeing a GP about something gynaecological, or to do with my mental or sexual health then I damn well want to speak with someone that has experienced my biological reality.

If trans people who are doctors state they are trans rather than pretend they are women or men when they are not, then patients would theoretically have a choice, or be able to ask for a chaperone. Trans patients would also know confidently they would be treated by a trans doctor . Deception is never a good idea. However I would bet that most patients would prefer a doctor of the same sex for intimate exams. And should not be considered transphobic if they ask for this.

Agree too and will repeat what I said in the other thread.

If I have a Woman’s medical issue- my male GP always asks if I’d rather see one of the Women GPs. I always say yes. So do I now have to wait until I actually get to the appt to determine if the Dr is a woman or a TW?

Yes definitely Nestme! It’s not just the physical examinations but talking about the things only women can experience eg periods, menopause with someone who lives that biological reality really helps. I know a lot of women are quite happy to discuss this with male doctors and that’s fine but what I don’t want is not to get what it says on the tin so to speak. If I ask for a female HCP I want a woman not a TW

Totally agree about not being deceived. I suppose some trans people wouldn't consider it a deception but I do.

I think this is a huge breach of trust. Not least because we are all made to feel guilty about using the NHS at all, which would make it doubly difficult to refuse to be examined once you find yourself in the room with that person. You'd have the awkwardness of saying no (with all the ingrained female behaviour of not wanting to hurt the other person's feelings, even when not doing so is detrimental to our own feelings) plus the 'resources are scarce, someone else could have had that appointment' issue.

I think this is perhaps an ever greater issue in a hospital setting than in a GPs surgery. At least you have a chance of knowing something about the doctors at your GPs. Imagine waiting years for a gynae consultant appointment for example, then arriving to find that what you thought was a woman actually isn't.

I checked what it said about this doctor in the GMC register. They are listed as female. There is also a male doctor with the same surname, identical qualifications etc.who is no longer registered.

www.gmc-uk.org/registration-and-licensing/the-medical-register#searchTheRegister

Can't believe the thread was pulled i mean if there's a published interview surely there can be a discussion

The "it never happens" thread a bit full is it

I'll also repeat. Medicine should be about the patient . They are scared or dying or sick its not the time or place.

Not that gaslighting is acceptable any time .

According to my Labour MP, when I asked what should happen if I ask for a woman doctor and a male doctor wants the job - it was never an issue they've come across, so ...?

It's almost as though women can think ahead if the consequences are important to them, and men who don't care are surprised when other men take advantage.

A healthcare professional's gender identity is irrelevant to me. It's as irrelevant as their favourite holiday destination or how they take their tea.

From them I need the best medical care they can provide, based on what is available and what is required. For intimate care, sex is important, and as the best care they provide includes considering my comfort that is part of it. A big part as it happens.

A few years ago I had a late missed miscarriage. Following a labour, surgery and blood transfusion I was emotionally and physically wrecked. When I went to my GP I saw 2 males doctors the first couple if couple of times. They signed me off work but basically told me to pull myself together. Next time I went I saw an amazing female gp. What a difference that made. Someone who could understand the trauma.
It is awful someone could ask for a female gp for gynaecological problems and get someone with male anatomy instead who understands none of these problems.

According to the NHS, which lists ''gender'' insread of sex on a topic of this very issue that I raised about a week or twk ago, you may not be able to choose to see a female GP anymore.

The best way to deal with it is either getting into contact with your local heath board so they know that women care about the issue. Also, if you are ever uncomfortable in an appointment, just say it and leave. You don't have to tell them why or get into an argument. If enough women do that, the receptionists will soon figure out what's going on and start booking women in to see women when they ask for it.

@Norma27

A few years ago I had a late missed miscarriage. Following a labour, surgery and blood transfusion I was emotionally and physically wrecked. When I went to my GP I saw 2 males doctors the first couple if couple of times. They signed me off work but basically told me to pull myself together. Next time I went I saw an amazing female gp. What a difference that made. Someone who could understand the trauma. It is awful someone could ask for a female gp for gynaecological problems and get someone with male anatomy instead who understands none of these problems.

What wankers. They really should know better!

Thank you Earth. They really were wankers.
The female was amazing and said she would always make sure she saw me for any further appointments.

Look what happens when you express concerns to a health board
twitter.com/cupwomenspledge/status/1307638001309229057?s=21

This would inevitably lead to some female people no longer being willing to access essential life care.

Proponents of this politics would say that this was justified consequences for non compliance/intolerance, but would not be able to explain their own intolerance or inequality of standards in recognising the feelings, needs, diversity and inclusion of both parties.

It always raises questions too regarding professional ethics. It is expected that a medical professional puts the needs of their patient first, would be trained and aware in the specific vulnerabilities and needs particularly in diversity of the women they treat, and would always wish to act in the way most likely to ensure the woman had the healthcare they needed. To require a patient to meet a healthcare provider's needs when they have come in a state of vulnerability for help, and consent, dignity and quite possibly intimate touch is involved, is moving against normal policy in many, many ways and is crossing plenty of lines.

A decision is eventually going to have to be made. Either all health care providers who qualify for a role such as this accept that they can and must follow policy and professional expectations regardless of their individual personal characteristics or feelings: no one characteristic can be a reason why this is not possible for all of them.

Or if that one characteristic is so important and of such impact to the person that this is not possible or reasonable to expect of any professional with it, then it would have to be questioned whether people with that characteristic had an insuperable barrier to working in roles such as this.

Of course shared experience, including that of shared anatomy, is entirely relevant. It is dishonest to argue that it has no relevance or even to minimise the degree of relevance.

My experience with doctors is littered with arrogant male doctors who had no understanding or even just empathy for females with menstruation and pregnancy issues. Even recently, I had a very painful and extended experience having a Pap smear with two female nurses due to retroverted uterus and menopausal muscles etc. It would have been so much worse with a male- there probably be no chance of getting that test done.

No. I think that the British medical board will experience a great deal of push back if it denies women the legal right to request their choice of health professional for intimate care. (and men)

If a person's mental health is that fragile it depends on ignoring a patient's wishes to maintain that mental health, they are in the wrong job and need to be responsible for their choices (in this instance, the choice to deny their sex over their gender identity).

This actually worries me.

There are medical differences between men and women and this area is still being researched.

www.medpagetoday.com/cardiology/hypertension/44240

sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2018/treating-men-and-women-differently-sex-differences-in-the-basis-of-disease/

Male GPS tend to prescribe activity restrictions differently for men and women

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953696004054

And women are more likely to survive a heart attack if treated by a female doctor

www.healthline.com/health-news/women-more-likely-survive-heart-attack-doctor-is-female

To some extent I am afraid that I think that anyone insisting to their doctor that they are the opposite biological sex will have to live with potential consequences of this statements.

However, given that there appears to be evidence for a bias in treatment of women from male doctors compared to female doctors (In addition to anecdotal evidence that female issues like menopause etc is taken less seriously) I think it is outrageous that biological males can claim to be female doctors.

(This is a side point to the fact many previous posters eloquently have put about female reluctance to discuss certain issues with males. And religious aspects.)

“If a persons mental health is that fragile that it depends on ignoring the patient’s wishes to maintain that mental health, they are in the wrong job”

this

So sorry Norma

I had a male GP tell me when I went with a silent miscarriage, "well there was something wrong with it, you didn't want that one". I was speechless. Again, it's part of the female experience of having male people, who have absolutely no concept of an experience they have no connection to or awareness of, projecting their own perceptions all over them as 'fact'. It's a common thing in all fields for females. You cannot improve things until male people are willing to recognise and respect that being biologically female is a state of indigenous people who are the experts on themselves, and life and culture is different there, and not intrinsically faulty and in need of correcting back to the male perceived narrative.

@testing987654321

According to my Labour MP, when I asked what should happen if I ask for a woman doctor and a male doctor wants the job - it was never an issue they've come across, so ...?

It's almost as though women can think ahead if the consequences are important to them, and men who don't care are surprised when other men take advantage.

@caughtalightsneeze

plus the 'resources are scarce, someone else could have had that appointment' issue.

That's why it's important that women refuse. If they do that, the NHS will soon stop doing it. My local clinic didn't sound happy when I asked for a female gynae. There was 1 male, and I think 2-3 females in the team. I think they told me that all the females were busy, and I'd have to wait a lot longer to see them. I remember feeling like they were trying to persuade me, which I wasn't taking. It's clear to me like women just wanted to see women and that's why their female gyne were all so busy,

Resistance that is awful.
I must admit my male bosses were amazing. Although they obviously didn't want to know any details!
I just don't understand how people with strong religious and cultural beliefs cannot demand a female person. It is just abysmal.

We are also told about the unacceptability of 'outing' oneself by having to self declare highly personal, sensitive data. I agree. It is. It's unacceptable for everyone though, not just for some.

Policy such as this puts pressure on female people to have to do exactly that, to plead for their case to access a same sex service. Are we seriously going to require that female people do, as the YHA tried briefly to suggest might be a way forward until all hell broke loose, that a woman should stand at a reception desk in sight and sound of everyone around them and explain to a stranger with no training or knowledge of how that data may be handled, what their personal faith is, what their domestic abuse/coercive control situation at home is, what their rape or sexual assault history is, what disability they have?

Either we have these values as a society, or we don't. Having them for some but refusing them to others? How exactly is that going to work?

I tried to broach this in a letter to my MP who basically said that women would not be called transphobic for not wanting a male and that the case of one in the media did not mean it would be across the board. Her refusal to budge from the tw aw line was completely disheartening.

She is a lib dem, in what was before last election, a power seat for them. Now I cannot see that I will never get any understanding of the issues with her. Because now she will be worried about being expelled for transphobia if she deviates at all.