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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Jk trans character and Robert Galbraith

151 replies

TheTamingOfTheresa · 15/09/2020 15:42

I’ve been speaking out in support of JK on social media but there’s an avalanche of criticism of her latest Trans murderer character plus her using the name Robert Galbraith which apparently was the name of some historical anti gay figure. What do people think is the best way to counter this?

OP posts:
Jellyeggs · 16/09/2020 10:11

Nobody gives a flying f*k about novels that subjugate women...but if you exit the twitter sphere nobody really gives a f*k about TRAs either. Unfortunately that means no one is paying attention when they start changing legislation.

JaneAustenWouldHateThis · 16/09/2020 10:12

Should Stonewall be cancelled too?

Yes please. That would be a very nice Christmas present.

RuffleCrow · 16/09/2020 10:12

Yy @janeaustenwouldhatethis ! The woke of beard can often be observed frustratedly trying to jab at, click and scroll on paperbacks on the tube. Wink

Jellyeggs · 16/09/2020 10:13

Please understand me when I pick apart your arguments (like “Stonewall says trans people are cross dressers” - they don’t) I am not standing up for Stonewall. I’m just trying to re-focus the discussion on irrefutable realities rather than semantics.

JaneAustenWouldHateThis · 16/09/2020 10:15

Oh yes they do!

Come on boys and girls!

EyesOpening · 16/09/2020 10:19

@Jellyeggs

Please understand me when I pick apart your arguments (like “Stonewall says trans people are cross dressers” - they don’t) I am not standing up for Stonewall. I’m just trying to re-focus the discussion on irrefutable realities rather than semantics.
Whose comment are you referring to there?
EyesOpening · 16/09/2020 10:20

Whose and which, I should say

ErrolTheDragon · 16/09/2020 10:20

@Quaagars

Yes, Self ID problem on here, but also trans women full stop too (as one of the above comments show since I posted) even if you personally think trans women should be allowed in. It's clear that's not the usual stance, that it's not just self ID for a lot of posters.
The issues around self ID caused discussion among women, and made many of us aware of the fact that for some - most obvious example being some women who had been raped - having any male in women's spaces is a problem and effectively excludes them. So, yes, there has been a shift in attitudes. We have been made aware that although we personally might be fine with transwomen in women's spaces, that's irrelevant - we have to prioritise the needs of vulnerable women.
Jellyeggs · 16/09/2020 10:28

@EyesOpening

Whose and which, I should say
Old crone said “So under Stonewall's definition, the character in JK Rowling's book is trans, because he's a crossdresser.”

Stonewall says cross dressers CAN be trans. Not that they definitely are. JK Rowling doesn’t even mention trans in her book as I understand (I’m waiting for it to arrive). The complaint from TRA’s is an assumption that she means trans by cross dresser but even stonewall don’t assume that all cross dressers are trans. They have made a leap based on their previous shared character assassination of JK Rowling.

The80sweregreat · 16/09/2020 10:31

J K is a feminist and Stonewall and others just do not like her views.

ItalianHat · 16/09/2020 10:32

Ask them about Silence of the Lambs or Psycho.

Are they going to cancel or do that awful RIP thing to the authors, directors, and makers of those books/films?

Because those are 2 examples of hugely popular novels/films where the murderer is a transvestite, or otherwise involves a fetish for dressing as a woman as part of their criminality.

Jellyeggs · 16/09/2020 10:34

Her views are pretty tame though - she has made an objective distinction between transwomen and women based on their bodies. That’s it. Most people in the world have the same view. Stonewall don’t like it because her platform is shining a light on their agenda.

Purpledaisychain · 16/09/2020 10:35

I think some people don't like the implication that all trans people are actually just men who want to attack women. She has spoken out against various trans issues lately and the trans community is probably feeling like they are under attack by her at the minute.

SunsetBeetch · 16/09/2020 10:38

*Old crone said “So under Stonewall's definition, the character in JK Rowling's book is trans, because he's a crossdresser.”

Stonewall says cross dressers CAN be trans. Not that they definitely are. JK Rowling doesn’t even mention trans in her book as I understand (I’m waiting for it to arrive). The complaint from TRA’s is an assumption that she means trans by cross dresser but even stonewall don’t assume that all cross dressers are trans. They have made a leap based on their previous shared character assassination of JK Rowling.*

Crucially though, JK Rowling has made no such comments on cross dressers.

Purpledaisychain · 16/09/2020 10:39

@Jellyeggs Some of her posts have been a bit tasteless but yeah I agree. Her views are tame enough.

But I also think that the book's villain being a man dressing as a woman is a bit tasteless at the moment. It is being deciphered by some people like she is saying "Look what is going to happen if co allow men to dress like women! They are going to kill us!"

If she had written a book and made a point of the murderer being black, she would no doubt be branded as racist.

Kit19 · 16/09/2020 10:40

Literally no one said that. What people have said repeatedly is that men as a class can be dangerous to women as a clas last which is why we have women only spaces because we can’t tell which men will attack us & which wont. Men can identify & dress as they want but they’re not biological women.

And By spoken out do you mean written a deeply compassionate essay but said there are only 2 biological sexes & only women menstruate?

Kit19 · 16/09/2020 10:41

There is one paragraph on p75 which refers to a past Seriel killer wearing a female disguise. That is it, one paragraph in 900 pages

Jellyeggs · 16/09/2020 10:43

“Crucially though, JK Rowling has made no such comments on cross dressers.”

Good point. There is a lot of inference going on based on her media profile over the last few months.

aliasundercover · 16/09/2020 10:44

the trans community is probably feeling like they are under attack by her at the minute.

Read what JK wrote. Read what the 'trans community' wrote.
It is clear who is under attack from whom.

Purpledaisychain · 16/09/2020 10:45

@Kit19

I know, the book is nowhere near as bad as people are making it sound. But some people have gotten it into their heads that she despises transgender people in general and this is a dig at them.

Purpledaisychain · 16/09/2020 10:49

@aliasundercover

I never said that this is how I felt. I am saying how they are feeling right now. Given the circumstances, I do think it is a little distasteful. If anything, the media isn't helping. They are making it sound really bad.

SunsetBeetch · 16/09/2020 10:53

[quote Purpledaisychain]@aliasundercover

I never said that this is how I felt. I am saying how they are feeling right now. Given the circumstances, I do think it is a little distasteful. If anything, the media isn't helping. They are making it sound really bad.[/quote]
Yup. The Telegraph reviewer made a big booboo, then Pink News stoked the fire. I'd love to see consequences for this, but I'm not too hopeful.

The80sweregreat · 16/09/2020 10:58

It is a bit provocative of her to have such a character when she has already received so much hate on twitter etc about her views and her lengthy essay on the subject. I thought this before I received my copy!
I haven't read the whole book yet but there a few references and as some of the action is based in the mid 70s the views about this are different to today's much more tolerant society.
I'm a big fan of these books and I admire her for speaking out but I heard about the backlash I did have a moment when I thought ' oh dear , what has she done? '
Maybe steering clear of any controversial subjects may have helped her , but clearly she hasn't , even if it's not as it's being portrayed and not that central to the plot.
If that makes any sense! I'm a big fan though so it won't stop me reading her work. If people are upset just avoid the books and her twitter feed.
We all have different points of view in life and her are as valid as anyone else's are.

Sparklfairy · 16/09/2020 11:02

It is a bit provocative of her to have such a character when she has already received so much hate on twitter etc about her views and her lengthy essay on the subject

I don't know how long it took her to write but one would assume she'd finished or almost finished it when the trans row kicked off. It crossed my cynical mind that the two events were connected for publicity but let's be honest she doesn't need the book to sell to put food on the table Grin

JaneAustenWouldHateThis · 16/09/2020 11:02

* ..*the trans community is probably feeling like they are under attack by her at the minute.

Really?

Getting death/rape threats are they?

Being told to die in a grease fire are they? (Whatever the fuck that means.)

Do they have a have a special hashtag just for them that says #RIPtranscommunity?

Do they get told to "suck on my cis dick?"

Grow the fuck up.