The gender politics of food

[JellySlice]

A thread about the gender politics of chicken for dinner reminded me of a colleague who was organising a series of large business dinners hosted by our MD. My colleague would always order lamb for the men and chicken for the women. She was distraught one day when a male guest had to drop out at the last minute and sent his female colleague instead. My colleague genuinely believed that it was rude to serve men chicken, and that no woman would willingly eat lamb because it was too rich and heavy.

Is or was this kind of belief common? Man's food and woman's food?

I'm with you on the pizza toppings, BarbaraofSeville!

TBH, as a meat eater it never occurred to me not to eat from the veggie options at a buffet because vegetarians might go without. Not because I didn't consider their needs, but because it never occurred to me that the caterer would not have done their job. Mumsnet educated me, and I now always check out the veggie offering before helping myself, and take less veggie food if there isn't a generous amount available.

Some of the stories here are so rude and entitled. How dare you eat someone else's specialist diet meal? How dare you eat someone else's labelled meal? How dare you start eating before the people who cooked the food have sat down?

Do people wait at buffets until everyone has got their food?

Stripes

In that case were there sufficient sides and non meat options on the meat eaters table or could it be reasonably assumed that the 'vegetable' table was the accompaniments?

Were there sufficient portion sizes available for people who may have been bigger eaters than the cooks? If there was a lot of meat left over, it sounds like too much was cooked. That's not the fault of the guests, who may have been unaware of dietary requirements of other guests.

Many buffets don't have enough non meat options to allow omnivores to put a balanced plate together. If there's 10 different things, then at least 7 or 8 of them should be vegetarian because most people will only pick one or two meat items and several vegetable options so if you knew you were feeding a lot of vegetarians, just about all the meal should have been suitable for them, because you have to account for the fact that just about everyone will eat the vegetarian food, including most of the meat eaters.

This thread reminds me of this guy I treated to a meal at a cheapish Indian restaurant. He started to grumble about how restaurants were catering for women these days, like that was a bad thing. I couldn't figure out what he was even on about, so to make his point, he drew my attention to a little poster on the wall showing some kind of parfait dessert available there. Needless to say that relationship didn't go well.

Barbara, I don’t know. It wasn’t my post.

All of the people cooking were also guests. 20 people isn’t many. They should have left a choice for the people in the kitchen who had cooked for them.

@NiceGerbil

I'm feeling really sad about undercatered buffets! There should be more than enough for everyone and I don't get the meat eaters should not have vegetarian stuff either. I've not really experienced this- what do you mean by vegetarian stuff? Anything that isn't meat or what?

Genuinely confused. I always do stuff like home made coleslaw and Herby warm buttery new potatoes and cheeses and stuff. I'd be gutted if most people didn't have any!

The coleslaw and potatoes are clearly 'sides' meant for anyone (except vegans). It's taking vegetarian 'mains' if you've requested the meat option - either instead or as well as the meat - before you're sure the vegetarians have had some. Under catered buffets may be sad, but not everyone can afford (or wish to produce) a load of wasted food.

Buffets I've been to, generally people take a reasonable amount and then after everyone has had something, people who want more go back for 'seconds'.

‘Were there sufficient portion sizes available for people who may have been bigger eaters than the cooks? If there was a lot of meat left over, it sounds like too much was cooked. That's not the fault of the guests, who may have been unaware of dietary requirements of other guests.’

Would you act like this if another guest at a wedding cooked you a meal? Would you start complaining that your portion wasn’t big enough or that the meal wasn’t balanced? Would you not make sure that everyone got a share?

I’ve been at meals for 20 people. I wouldn’t stack up a plate without making sure there was enough left for the people cooking. They are not servants.

And perhaps that does come back to women being treated as if they are.

On the buffet thing, I totally agree that the veggie food should be the bulk. If I'm doing a BBQ or something and there are vegetarians, I don't make a separate veggie meal for them, but I will make a LOT of vegetarian side dishes because I know that everyone will eat the veggies, the vegetarians just won't eat the meat. Ditto, one vegetarian while cooking lasagna - I make one large meat and one large vegetarian because inevitably the meat eaters would rather have a small piece of each. I don't understand why this isn't standard.

On the OP's chicken/lamb thing, I get this. When I worked in the city and used to do a lot of business lunches, I always felt self conscious if I ordered the beef or lamb. which of course, was completely ridiculous. But the weird sub conscious thing that the woman should want the chicken, fish or salad option is very hard to beat. It was particularly annoying for me as at the time we ate very little red meat at home so I loved to order beef or lamb when out.... Usually I would just order it anyway, but there were times I didn't because of ridiculous worrying about being judged.

@NiceGerbil

Aha this is my thread

Food and drinks are so incredibly gendered. And it's a thing that's so embedded that no one notices it, and lots of people cement it with comments.

Couple to get you started

Went to a restaurant with work. Posh and pricey. Ordered the same as the bloke next to me. Food came out and was put in front of us. Forks up. Owner rushes over and literally swaps my meal with the bloke next to me. Mine was bigger, he said no no! He must have the big one.

Bonkers. I was PMSL TBH. Everyone was aghast. He also kept referring to a couple of us as 'your wife' the the man we happened to be sitting next to!

I mean he was mad.

Things that happen all the time.

Woman orders Coke man diet Coke. Diet Coke put in front of woman. Ditto steak for the woman Vs not steak. Ditto a pint/ alcoholic beverage for her and a not pint/ soft drink for him.

Oh and he likes puddings I don't. They often say I'll bring an extra spoon hoho. I say no thanks. They bring one anyway. Because all women love desert apparently.

I have loads more!

I hope you asked if your meal was going to be cheaper in that case?

one vegetarian while cooking lasagna ‘- I make one large meat and one large vegetarian because inevitably the meat eaters would rather have a small piece of each. I don't understand why this isn't standard‘

You could make two different vegetarian dishes and then everyone could have a bit of each.

I’ve noticed this a lot in my own family, and anecdotally among friends. On holidays, for instance, dh might eat a fry for breakfast and not be particularly hungry again until dinner time, and is quite obtuse about the dc’s need to eat earlier in the day.
He’s not at all mean, or unwilling to pull his weight in the kitchen, but it’s as if he cannot quite process the dissonance.

My father was like this. He was an incredibly kind, generous man. But this was his one huge blind spot. My mother always said that when we were growing up, we'd be off on a day out, car full of us kids and he'd say something like 'we don't need lunch, I'm not hungry'. And she'd have to spell it out to him that actually just because he wasn't hungry didn't mean that no one else needed to eat. And he'd be amazed every single time.

I was at a wedding a couple of years ago and was the only singleton on a table of couples. All of the women on my table had either ordered the chicken dish which they picked at, or the lamb but gave the meat to the men. They looked horrified that I not only ordered the lamb, but actually ate it all myself.

Growing up my brothers always got bigger portions and the better cuts of meat. Which never really made sense as I was a dancer and always ravenous. I've ended up with a very bad relationship with food and am now morbidly obese :(

DS1 is pescetarian and the amount of people who tell him he should eat meat because he's a man is astonishing

@Stripesgalore

one vegetarian while cooking lasagna ‘- I make one large meat and one large vegetarian because inevitably the meat eaters would rather have a small piece of each. I don't understand why this isn't standard‘

You could make two different vegetarian dishes and then everyone could have a bit of each.

When doing a lasagna I'd always do at the very least a large side salad as well. So no, I don't really feel the need to make the entire meal vegetarian for one person.

@JellySlice

I expect the straws in women's drinks but not in men's is because of lipstick.

I don't wear lipstick and I get straws in my drinks. Less nowadays as there are generally less straws, but the men in with NEVER get straws put into their soft drinks.

'. If I'm doing a BBQ or something and there are vegetarians, I don't make a separate veggie meal for them, but I will make a LOT of vegetarian side dishes because I know that everyone will eat the veggies, the vegetarians just won't eat the meat'

I do this too! And the leftovers all get eaten gradually lol

Differences in local/ family/ etc groups causing confusion I think!

Is drinking through a straw emasculating

@NiceGerbil

'. If I'm doing a BBQ or something and there are vegetarians, I don't make a separate veggie meal for them, but I will make a LOT of vegetarian side dishes because I know that everyone will eat the veggies, the vegetarians just won't eat the meat'

I do this too! And the leftovers all get eaten gradually lol

Differences in local/ family/ etc groups causing confusion I think!

I should also say that I do DO veggie burgers in these situations and learnt the very first time to make enough for everyone as for some reason, even the biggest meat eaters will have one!

Interesting thread. Quite a few sad stories of entitled behaviour though! I must live in a parallel world to some pp because I've never come across workmates unrepentingly eating someone else's diet-specific dish or the men at a wedding stuffing themselves so there's hardly anything for the women.
I have come across gender stereotyping in restaurants re bill/alcohol vs soft drinks/ desserts though, or the assumption that it's my DH who'll want the red meat.

Ah yes halloumi for the veggies but who doesn't like halloumi! So yes loads.

We've not found a satisfactory veggie burger, got any recs?

I like big field mushrooms with cheese in but most of DH family hates mushrooms, most of our BBQ are big family dos. So I don't do them :(

Getting somewhat off topic now!

Another one. The amount of times I've asked for a Coke and get given a diet Coke are unbelievable.

@Stripesgalore

Reading these threads makes me realise why so many women have eating disorders.

This in spades!

Buffet style or unplated meals can be a nightmare. A few years ago we went to a club function where the food was prepared by an outside caterer. The plates were handed out and each table had their food presented on serving plates passed around. A couple of ladies at the top of the table helped themselves to large portions, by the time it got to us DH and myself had a few veg plus a single slice of beef between us (as did another couple) not even gravy. We pointed out the issue to the organisers and since then the caterers have been serving pre plated (this has also raised complaints by some about the portions being too small).

I have great sympathy for those organising these dos, a thankless task.

I've had my vegan/milk free with fish/no dairy options removed from separate storage and labelled with my name and eaten before now.

Meant I was left with a single slice of cold meat feast pizza. When the pizza bit was the entire reason I'd been ordered a separate meal in the first place.

I kicked up such a public stink because I'm too old to give a fuck about what anybody thinks anymore, the boss made the men who had either taken it or kept quiet as one of them blatantly stole my food all hand over cash so they could order me something else.

I got twenty quid's worth of posh sushi that way.

Mind you, I've also been informed at a do at a curry house that if I was going to order vegetarian shite, I could fuck off because 'we eat MEAT' I corrected them 'vegan, actually - and you lot can fuck right off first unless you want to take my fucking milk allergy with you'.

I always make a fuss when it happens. Don't piss me about with food, I'm not scared of the penises attached to the choring pigs and they all know it.

@NiceGerbil

Ah yes halloumi for the veggies but who doesn't like halloumi! So yes loads.

We've not found a satisfactory veggie burger, got any recs?

Beyond burgers are good. £5 for 2 at Tesco.