Bella Thorne | Mumsnet

suspensionbridge · 01/09/2020 04:31

Bump

FireUnderTheHand · 01/09/2020 05:49

@HarryHarry1

Not sure if there is already a thread about her. I hadn’t heard of her before today so for those of you who might not know, she is a 22-year-old Disney star with an estimated net worth of $5-12m. She is in the news because she has recently joined the website Onlyfans, on which people can sell their own adult entertainment, and has already made over $2m from selling “nudes” of herself (in which she wasn’t actually nude) to subscribers. She initially claimed she was researching a film role with a certain director (Sean Baker) but he has since said that this was a lie.

I have so many questions about this, the first one being WHY??? Why would a young woman who is already rich, famous and successful feel the need to do this?

I’m also confused about parts of Sean Baker’s statement in which he described himself as a sex worker “ally” who seeks to “normalise” their “lifestyles”. What does it mean to be an ally to sex workers? Can sex work really be considered a lifestyle? Should it be normalised? Is this just another example of American/liberal feminism being sort of at odds to feminism almost everywhere else?

Interested in other people’s thoughts.

Poor Bella... no sarcasm no jokes no judgement and no disrespect.

"Getting molested from [the age of] 6-14... being abuse all the time...I was being molested....people have no idea the type mistreatment I was dealing with [while a Disney star] that everyone around me saw and did nothing."

twitter.com/Tiff_FitzHenry/status/1145017021794529281

Her decision to exploit herself as an adult was poor but taught and coerced through grooming... now she's being dragged about it but in reality she is a CSA survivor that hasn't had the time (or help I expect) to really work through it.

Gingerkittykat · 01/09/2020 06:16

I think the answer to why she is doing it is the $2 million in a few days!

I don't think sex work should be normalised and I'm sure a male sex worker advocate is just a perv or pimp.

DianasLasso · 01/09/2020 06:53

I saw an article on this the other day - apparently quite a few pop stars/ film stars are now using the platform - not to post nude or pornographic content, but Sony as a means (presumably their account is actually handled by a PA) of monetising interactions with their fanbase. You (generic you) used to write to the studio for a signed photo, now you get a digitally signed image, for a fee.

Apparently it's pissing off the rest of the users who see it as diluting their brand.

nauticant · 01/09/2020 08:11

There are some interesting parallels here. Real sex workers have a marginalised life and have to go through unpleasant and degrading experiences to get money to live on and then see a tourist turn up doing "sex worker cosplay" and using that performance to earn woke cookies, as well as more money than an average sex worker could ever hope to get.

Kit19 · 01/09/2020 08:15

This is thread should be compulsory reading for all the middle class sex work is a positive choice girls & women on Instagram & twitter especially

twitter.com/mar0uxna/status/1300035123212169216?s=21

PumbaasCucumbas · 01/09/2020 08:16

Sex worker ally... how very gracious and charitable

PumbaasCucumbas · 01/09/2020 08:27

There was an amazing post on a sex worker thread once which explained that those who do well out of sex work and make themselves a lot of money and a good life are the small part of the iceberg above the water. The poor, exploited, trafficked, abused, enslaved and addicted women (and children) are the vastly larger ice block below the surface. Those who succeed in the industry may claim to be cleaning up and campaigning for safety and employment rights for sex workers, but there will always be the illegal, abusive version for the larger chunk of the iceberg, run by mafia, pimps and people traffickers.

Condoning or glamorising ‘Empowered sex work’ normalises it and ultimately increases the number of men seeking to pay for sex and feeling entitlement and no guilt to do so. Plus even high end escorts and so on sometimes find themselves in scary, stalky and even life threatening situations. It only takes one bad/obsessive customer. It is a shame for someone with such a platform to endorse this.

BarkandCheese · 01/09/2020 08:46

I think OnlyFans has replaced traditional print media which is now no longer operating, or if still going doesn’t have either the readership or the cash they once did. In the past someone like Bella Thorne would have been paid a significant amount for a Playboy spread, that’s not going to happen now. I’m not condoning only fans, but I don’t think it’s much different from the old lads mags and soft core mags, it’s filling the same niche.

nauticant · 01/09/2020 08:53

What this does bring to mind for me is how those who perform social justice are often on the hunt to find new identities they can appropriate to develop their personal brand.

Original poster

HarryHarry1 · 01/09/2020 12:01

What is the goal of normalizing sex work though? Is it going to be end up being suggested by guidance counsellors in schools as a possible career choice for girls? I feel like this is so fucked up.

OP posts:

OnlyTheLangoftheTitBerg · 01/09/2020 12:24

The part of this I find particularly interesting is the response to OnlyFans changing its TOS to limit the amount that can be charged for custom stuff, and moved from weekly to monthly payments out, after the request for refunds from the poor ickle masturbators who didn’t get to see all the goods they’d paid for () just about crashed the system. All the choosy-choice “sex work is work” libfems are now mad at Bella Thorne, rather than at the platform. There seems to be no recognition that this is just capitalism in action. OnlyFans is their pimp but they can’t see it; instead they turn on the individual woman and blame her. Thus was it ever so.

CrazyToast · 01/09/2020 14:19

There is a second part to the story which should be added. Because BT charged $200 for her nudes which weren't nudes, OnlyFans got many complaints and refund requests. They have now said the maximum which can be charged for a pic is $50 (I think) and the payments have gone from weekly to monthly.

People on the site have lost their shit and are ripping Bella Thorne to shreds, blaming her for a drop in their income and saying they can't pay bills now. She is being cancelled and attacked. I'm not sure if it is because she isn't a 'real' sex worker, because she doesnt rely on that income, because she didn't show nudes as promised, or if the internet would turn on anyone who was involved in OnlyFans changing their T&Cs.

WeeBisom · 01/09/2020 14:30

I find it funny all the liberal feminist websites getting mad at Bella. The lib fems are saying she’s ruined things for working class “sex workers” and she shouldn’t have been on the site anyway, being so rich. Er , but I thought that sex work was work like any other? So why are they so mad at her doing a job? Why is it not her place to be doing sex work? Sure , she’s independently wealthy so doesn’t need to do it but you don’t see people shrieking at George Clooney for crowding the luxury liquor market. No one is mad at celebrity authors. If sex work is real work then it has to be accepted that it’s competitive like any field. By going on about her taking opportunities from poor women this emphasises what a shitty, zero sum game pornography is.

And also why are people mad at her when it’s only fans that has changed its policy? Only fans has now limited the amount of money you can earn. But that is solely the platform’s fault.

FireUnderTheHand · 01/09/2020 14:36

I repeat...

Her decision to exploit herself as an adult was poor but taught and coerced through grooming... now she's being dragged about it but in reality she is a CSA survivor that hasn't had the time (or help I expect) to really work through it.

She is isolated from the general population, it isn't like she had a safe childhood where she was treated well and protected from predators - she was groomed into this mindset starting at 6yrs old (possibly before). If you aren't a CSA survivor you may not understand the gravity of carrying that abuse and memory through your life and how it ultimately teaches you that you are an object to be abused and blamed for the abuse you suffered, i.e. subhuman and discardable. It takes a great deal of self work to overcome that mindset, to believe that you are worth more than your exploitation. CSA almost destroyed me as a person (took until mid-30s before I started to really grasp the impact it had on me and to recognize patterns it had embedded in my psyche) and I stand in support of Bella in that regard.

FireUnderTheHand · 01/09/2020 14:47

@WeeBisom

I find it funny all the liberal feminist websites getting mad at Bella. The lib fems are saying she’s ruined things for working class “sex workers” and she shouldn’t have been on the site anyway, being so rich. Er , but I thought that sex work was work like any other? So why are they so mad at her doing a job? Why is it not her place to be doing sex work? Sure , she’s independently wealthy so doesn’t need to do it but you don’t see people shrieking at George Clooney for crowding the luxury liquor market. No one is mad at celebrity authors. If sex work is real work then it has to be accepted that it’s competitive like any field. By going on about her taking opportunities from poor women this emphasises what a shitty, zero sum game pornography is.

And also why are people mad at her when it’s only fans that has changed its policy? Only fans has now limited the amount of money you can earn. But that is solely the platform’s fault.

I want to reemphasize your statement:

By going on about her taking opportunities from poor women this emphasises what a shitty, zero sum game pornography is.

It is and it is harmful to all girls/women. We are existing in the twilight zone. As girls/women are coerced further and further into male-shaped desire boxes (or out if you don't fit the bill), the most vulnerable are lost in the fray. The libfems choosing to hate Bella and shame her are complicit in diluting the issues and spreading their misogynistic hatred - their dogma is so fucking stupid and damaging... like a Ghislaine Maxwell army in training.

BelleHathor · 01/09/2020 15:29

[quote Kit19]This is thread should be compulsory reading for all the middle class sex work is a positive choice girls & women on Instagram & twitter especially

twitter.com/mar0uxna/status/1300035123212169216?s=21[/quote]
Wow, this thread was haunting, how easily she went from "no way not that" to "buying a return ticket to sleep with someone" in 30 days. This stuff is messed up 😥

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 01/09/2020 19:21

That film director is a prick. His statement says first that he didn't ask her to do this and is not developing anything with her. Then directly after that he had talked about developing something with her and had asked her to research OF.

I don't know anything about any of the people involved but it does seem this poor girl is shouldering the blame and anger from all sides while others try to shirk and deflect onto her.

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 01/09/2020 19:32

[quote Kit19]This is thread should be compulsory reading for all the middle class sex work is a positive choice girls & women on Instagram & twitter especially

twitter.com/mar0uxna/status/1300035123212169216?s=21[/quote]
Just wow, ouch.

PhilSwagielka · 01/09/2020 19:42

@PumbaasCucumbas

There was an amazing post on a sex worker thread once which explained that those who do well out of sex work and make themselves a lot of money and a good life are the small part of the iceberg above the water. The poor, exploited, trafficked, abused, enslaved and addicted women (and children) are the vastly larger ice block below the surface. Those who succeed in the industry may claim to be cleaning up and campaigning for safety and employment rights for sex workers, but there will always be the illegal, abusive version for the larger chunk of the iceberg, run by mafia, pimps and people traffickers.

Condoning or glamorising ‘Empowered sex work’ normalises it and ultimately increases the number of men seeking to pay for sex and feeling entitlement and no guilt to do so. Plus even high end escorts and so on sometimes find themselves in scary, stalky and even life threatening situations. It only takes one bad/obsessive customer. It is a shame for someone with such a platform to endorse this.

Yep. And fuck Vice for its article claiming women who do sex work can make millions out of it. For every few who do, there's loads who don't.

DrDavidBanner · 01/09/2020 20:05

When I first heard of Only Fans I thought it sounded like a really dodgy MLM and this only proves it.

I’m also confused about parts of Sean Baker’s statement in which he described himself as a sex worker “ally” who seeks to “normalise” their “lifestyles”. What does it mean to be an ally to sex workers?

I think the vernacular is 'John' and it wouldn't suprise me one bit.

Can sex work really be considered a lifestyle? Should it be normalised? Is this just another example of American/liberal feminism being sort of at odds to feminism almost everywhere else?

I was listening to a true crime podcast the other day, it was about girls being basically trafficked into prostitution and being horrifically abused, even murdered by their captors. It was an awful tale, but what really angered me was the very lib fem narrator was going out of her way to explain that sex work is work. I mean really? All these girls tortured and abused and that's all this self proclaimed feminist had to say. This is the stage we're at right now, this is what girls are learning.

DianasLasso · 01/09/2020 20:09

It was an awful tale, but what really angered me was the very lib fem narrator was going out of her way to explain that sex work is work. I mean really? All these girls tortured and abused and that's all this self proclaimed feminist had to say. This is the stage we're at right now, this is what girls are learning.

I think this debased form of liberal feminism is an extended, and sadly successful attempt, to piss on women's legs and tell them it's raining. And sadly some women would rather say "oh yes, let me get my umbrella out" rather than accept the truth that the johns and pimps really are pissing on their leg for the hell of it.

FireUnderTheHand · 01/09/2020 20:17

Is this just another example of American/liberal feminism being sort of at odds to feminism almost everywhere else?

As an American Feminist and member of WoLF I assure you this isn't our Feminism. This is 'progressive' politics, those that claim to be feminists and espouse these anti-woman views are merely adhering to the PoMo dogma wrapped in a tidy PoMosexual cloak that 'identifies as' Feminism.

Original poster

HarryHarry1 · 01/09/2020 21:58

That’s good to know! The only reason I ask is that all my American friends are “sex positive” and “sex worker positive” feminists which I have never understood!

OP posts:

DidoLamenting · 02/09/2020 02:40

This isn't Bella Thorne's first venture in to porn. In 2019 she directed a porn film which was released on Pornhub. I'm less sympathetic to the "poor girl , she is just a victim of abuse" line.

Her justification for making a porn film is the usual rubbish about porn needs more female directors, blah, blah.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-50072653