Passenger sues Easyjet after crew asked her to move seat for ultra-Orthodox man refusing to sit next to women

[stumbledin]

I cant believe this is still happening. There have been court cases about this for at least the past ten years which have always support women.
www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/easyjet-sue-luton-tel-aviv-discrimination-orthodox-melanie-wolfson-a9693641.html

Earlier cases:
2015 www.nytimes.com/2015/04/10/us/aboard-flights-conflicts-over-seat-assignments-and-religion.html
2017 www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/el-al-israeli-airline-orthodox-jewish-men-women-seats-flights-gender-segregation-a7804716.html
2018 airline says it will no longer accommodate Orthodox Jewish men who refuse to sit next to women
2020 www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/07/klm-breached-discrimination-law-by-asking-woman-to-move-for-orthodox-jewish-man/

I agree with Eastie. I can't see what legal grounds there are.

Whilst you, I, anyone might find behaviours abhorrent, and can debate for ages. That's one thing. This is different. is it legal? Is there a claim?

She was asked to move. She refused. 2 other women agreed, so they sat next to her.

And?

She was not the victim of discrimination from the airline

Again eh? She definitely was.

i hate that the man booked the flight in full knowledge that it was probable he’d have to inconvenience someone, but didn’t bother to do anything about it until the flight itself because he knew in all likelihood he’d achieve what he wanted without any financial impact on him.
He should have booked out the row for himself.

I cant see how it's not discriminatory based on sex.

The woman was treated differently, purely because of her sex. It's the definition of sex discrimination.

"Different types of sex discrimination
There are four main types of sex discrimination.

1. Direct discrimination

This happens when, because of your sex, someone treats you worse than someone of the opposite sex who is in a similar situation. For example:

a nightclub offers free entry to women but charges men to get in"

It's not about deciding whether or not she should have been offended. It's whether she was treated differently to how a man would have been, in the same situation. And the answer is yes.

Israel’s Supreme Court has previously ruled it’s illegal to ask women to give up their seats for men (whether planes or buses). It’s not without legal precedent.

I’m actually surprised EasyJet haven’t identified it as a risk & given appropriate training to staff given the ruling happened in 2018.

It's such a shame that other women agreed to move. In an ideal world every woman would have said no, your beliefs don't get to inconvenience half the population.

There is not the slightest doubt she was discriminated against. I'm amazed at the posters denying/ minimising it.

If a man doesn’t want to sit beside a woman, he should move. That’s fine. No way the woman should be expected to move, that is ridiculous. Even asking her makes it clear that women are unimportant while men must be pandered to.

what are the grounds for suing EasyJet in the above scenario?
It explains in the article, EasyJet are in breach of the law by asking her to move purely because she is a woman.

I think the woman is a bit of an opportunist to be honest.

It's worth noting the case is being bought in Israel, under Israeli law, which has already ruled such discrimination totally illegal in previous cases.

So this is on Easyjet, and is the sort of thing that is going to keep happening if you want to run a mickey mouse airline on a shoestring.

I'm not au fait with Israeli secular law, but if it allows exemplary damages Easyjet might want to be careful of clocking up too many complaints.

Race discrimination is different from sex discrimination. With sex discrimination we are all in it together - it isn’t about our parents, our heritage, our genes. It’s our sex and that’s half of us, not a minority. That’s not to say it isn’t wrong but it this context it doesn’t hold the savage and specific cut of a racist act. It’s not as deeply personal in my opinion.

If it happened to me as a woman of course I would be furious. But not as wounded as I would be if it was a racist exclusion.

@eastie77 I agree. Maybe it's moral relativism, but I feel like Jewish religious beliefs are quite marginalised. I certainly don't agree with them, but I'm not sure what easyjet was supposed to do. Sue their rabbi!

It absolutely is discrimination. Basically these men are saying that the physical presence of a woman is not acceptable to them. In that case they should pay for the whole row on the flight. Disgusting that the airline staff pander to them by moving the woman.

It really doesn't seem a lot different to me than having separate sections on the bus and restaurant based on skin colour. Just because the woman was asked politely to move and when she didn't, other - more passive - women did agree to move, doesn't make it better.

Deeply unpleasant and infuriating but these men have every right to live in accordance with their religious beliefs.

Do they? Can you act like a massive cunt, discriminate against people, live outside of law and social norms - but then just hide behind religion to get away with it?

Let's not forget that people are able to find religious text to condem gay people to death. So should it be OK to act on that if its your religion. What about treating women like property, or multiple wives. Slave ownership and beating of those slaves.

Being of an outdated, straight man centric religion does not give you the right treat people like shit and discriminate against people. They need to fuck of out of society if they don't want to follow the rules of modern societies.

How can sex discrimination not be deeply personal? I can do no less about my sex than I can do about my skin colour. I’m absolutely horrified at the posters minimising it.

@Gncq

what are the grounds for suing EasyJet in the above scenario? It explains in the article, EasyJet are in breach of the law by asking her to move purely because she is a woman.

I think the woman is a bit of an opportunist to be honest.

Not quite sure why standing up for your rights is "opportunist" ?

That sounds dangerously close to the attitude in the 60s and 70s peddled by the Daily Mail about people who "knew their rights" ...

I'd expect some victim blaming in their comments section. A little less so here ....

(The right she is standing up for is the right not to be treated differently because of her sex, by the way.)

eastie77 I agree. Maybe it's moral relativism, but I feel like Jewish religious beliefs are quite marginalised.

In Tel Aviv?

@Gncq

what are the grounds for suing EasyJet in the above scenario? It explains in the article, EasyJet are in breach of the law by asking her to move purely because she is a woman.

I think the woman is a bit of an opportunist to be honest.

A bit of an opportunist? Really? How do you come to that conclusion.

Easyjet acted in a way which breaches Israeli law yet her doing anything about it is opportunistic?

As some posters are playing top trumps discrimination here would she be a bit of an opportunist if they had objected to sit beside her because of race?

Wonder what sex the airline staff were? If all the flight attendants were female on that day would they have overcome their aversion to women in order to ask the female crew to in turn ask the female passengers to move? I'm sure females outnumber males in that particular area of work.

"If it happened to me as a woman of course I would be furious. But not as wounded as I would be if it was a racist exclusion"

Wow - these comments are really sad to read.have a think about what you're saying. Discrimination against women isn't as bad because we're 50% of the population? It's not as damaging because 'were all in it together?

Why would numbers make a difference. Is it not as bad to be discriminated against as a Christian in the UK than if you were a sikh, because there are many more Christians here?

@Al1Langdownthecleghole

eastie77 I agree. Maybe it's moral relativism, but I feel like Jewish religious beliefs are quite marginalised.

In Tel Aviv?

Given Israeli courts have previously (and from reading between the lines emphatically) ruled that this discrimination is illegal and "unacceptable" (in English courts a code word that the judge is pissed off...) then it seems Israeli law is fairly secular.

Sex discrimination in this case isn’t deeply personal. It is wrong but it elicits anger and frustration, not deep, personal wounds. I’m not minimising it but refuse to see it equated with race discrimination in the same context. They are different.

If she had been forced to move, harassed, intimidated then I would understand her suing the airline. None of those things happened

It was the second time it had happened. The first time
A flight attendant intervened and offered Wolfson a free hot drink as an incentive to move. Concerned that the flight might be delayed on her account and feeling that she had little choice in the matter
So, easyJet crew definitely involved.

The second time
Members of the cabin crew did not intervene or try to defend her right to stay seated where she was although again she was offered a free hot drink, according to the suit
So, easyJet crew facilitated it by doing nothing to help her stop being discriminated against. And no, just because two other women bowed down and decided to ‘be nice’ , doesn’t make it ok.

I’m not sure why one protected characteristic trumps another. Both sex and religion are protected.
It might have been better for the men to ask to move but it’s not really something I can get upset about. I personally think it’s better to try and negotiate a reasonable outcome.

30Alabamawhirly1. I agree wholeheartedly. I