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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowling's has written another post

454 replies

MilleniumHallsWalledGarden · 28/08/2020 00:37

calling once more for a more nuanced debate around gender identity and women's rights. It's here https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/statement-from-j-k-rowling-regarding-the-robert-f-kennedy-human-rights-ripple-of-hope-award/.

Thanks JKR

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HumousWhereTheHeartIs · 28/08/2020 12:29

This has led to a colleague explaining to me at length that the words women and woman are offensive to trans people, and shouldn't be used.

The same colleague has a trans friend who is campaigning for their child's birth certificate to be changed so they could become 'mother' and not 'father'. I pointed out that his friend is their child's biological father regardless. He now thinks I'm anti-trans which is why I am subjected to these lectures.

zanahoria · 28/08/2020 12:31

I meant sex being assigned at birth,

I have no idea what she is talking about

zanahoria · 28/08/2020 12:33

Does anyone even care if Kerry is disappointed?

moptophairshop · 28/08/2020 12:38

A message on Mermaids Twitter page:

*We are reflecting on JK Rowling's latest comments.

For now, we'll say this: trans rights do not come at the expense of women's rights. We believe that all women and trans people have the right to be safe,
respected and equal. *

So absolutely no acknowledgement whatsoever about the parts of JKR's letter which relate directly to organisations such as themselves. What about the growing concerns of the vast array of professionals who are seriously worried about the potential damage that the affirmative approach is doing? Nope, they've gone for the cop out 'no conflict of rights' line. Without any explanation of how they've reached that conclusion. Am genuinely interested in how they will respond in full.

Datun · 28/08/2020 12:39

@InvisibleDragon

It's interesting to see the difference in response on Twitter to this compared with the Stonewall rugby tweet.

Stonewall claiming transwomen have the right to play in women's rugby teams -> Twitter response approx 15+:1 supporting women's rights

New J. K. Rowling piece -> #IStandWithJKRowling is approximately 10:1 hammering Rowling as a transphobic bigot (with absolutely minimal engagement with what she has written).

I wonder if this is related to the difference in demographic between Harry Potter readers and people who care about women's sport? (Although I happen to be in both) Or is it just that the consequences of transwomen competing as women in full-contact sports are just too obvious to ignore?

This might carry more weight if Twitter didn't doctor responses.
moptophairshop · 28/08/2020 12:40

*apologises for the bold fail.

EdgeOfACoin · 28/08/2020 12:47

We believe that all women and trans people have the right to be safe, respected and equal.

Well, of course. Everyone thinks that. I also think that men have the right to be safe, respected and equal. Children have the right to be safe, respected and equal.

However, children are not treated the same as adults. Men are not treated the same as women in situations where biological sex matters. Male-bodied people do not have a right to be treated the same as female-bodied people in all situations, no matter how they identify. They still have a right to safety, respect and equality.

Datun · 28/08/2020 12:49

"From her own words, I take Rowling’s position to be that the sex one is assigned at birth is the primary and determinative factor of one’s gender, regardless of one’s gender identity—a position that I categorically reject. The science is clear and conclusive: Sex is not binary."

Eh? That doesn't make sense even by tra standards.

She appears to be saying that your sex doesn't determine whether you're masculine or feminine. Which is completely true. But then goes on to say that whether you are masculine or feminine, is determined by your sex, because sex isn't defined as being male or female.

You just need to get one of these people in a room with a microphone and ask them a couple of questions - and tell them they're not allowed to storm out when the corner they've painted themselves in to becomes suffocating.

Kit19 · 28/08/2020 12:51

Thats nice Mermaids - everyone believes that thanks - so why do you continue to behave in such a way to ensure that it cant happen?

once you redfine women out of existence as a legal category in their own right, one that excludes men however they present, we cannot legally defend what we've fought for

honestly there are some really hard of thinking people involved in these organisations....

Waspie · 28/08/2020 12:56

"The science is clear and conclusive: Sex is not binary," she wrote.
^
It's impossible to debate with this level of stupidity.

Thank you JKR Flowers #IStandWithJKRowling

Siameasy · 28/08/2020 13:00

She’s brilliant
“Sex is not binary” pmsl. So a) what are the other sexes called? b) how do I know where I fall on the sex-spectrum? c) how female am I? How male is my husband?!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/08/2020 13:01

For now, we'll say this: trans rights do not come at the expense of women's rights.

A statement which is easily refuted, if they didn't block anyone who disagrees with them.

BaronessWrongCrowd · 28/08/2020 13:02

Pinched this off @glinner Grin

JK Rowling's has written another post
Horizons83 · 28/08/2020 13:03

For once the BBC have used quotes which show the utter stupidity of the TRA arguments. They normally brush over/hide the ridiculous statements. Maybe there is a change starting there after all?

Kantastic · 28/08/2020 13:06

I wonder if this is related to the difference in demographic between Harry Potter readers and people who care about women's sport? (Although I happen to be in both) Or is it just that the consequences of transwomen competing as women in full-contact sports are just too obvious to ignore?

It might be that Americans don't care about rugby but they do care about Harry Potter. The discourse in the USA on this topic is utterly mindless.

crunchermuncher · 28/08/2020 13:09

Joanne you are a legend and a brave and wonderful role model Flowers

Or maybe Gin would be more appropriate.

Redshoeblueshoe · 28/08/2020 13:11

Thank you JKR Flowers Cake Brew

yourhairiswinterfire · 28/08/2020 13:18

@Siameasy

She’s brilliant “Sex is not binary” pmsl. So a) what are the other sexes called? b) how do I know where I fall on the sex-spectrum? c) how female am I? How male is my husband?!
Biological sex is outdated now. You couldn't make this shit up.

Now I've discovered sex isn't binary, and also that a womb and cervix are not exclusive to females because men can have them too, I've announced to DP that he'll be the one getting pregnant next time, via my feminine sperm.

It's a good job I have a fainting couch at home, because he told me I'm being fucking ridiculous :( The bigotry is strong in this one.

Thankfully I have plenty of time to re-educate him with opinion blogs dressed up as scientific facts before we wed. I cannot be married to someone with such outdated scientific views in 2020.

Grin
PublicServiceArse · 28/08/2020 13:21

I realise this is pretty important (to some people) but I’m a bit Hmm at the need for an earlier poster to go full on archive this, save that. It seems unhinged. Honestly no one cares enough to go back to 2019 and delete stuff to try and trick you.

TheMarzipanDildo · 28/08/2020 13:22

Now I’m not one for hero worship but

JKR ❤️❤️❤️

Iggi999 · 28/08/2020 13:25

FlowersFlowers
Brilliant. Loved the last line.

Mischance · 28/08/2020 13:26

As someone with a very dear young relative wishing to transition I agree with her every word. Young people who are confused about their gender need time and space and understanding to help them make the right decision for their lives at a time when many young people are questioning who they are in so many ways, not just gender.

The tightrope that parents need to walk to recognise their child's striving to feel at home in their body, but not to overemphasise this to the point where irrevocable steps are taken far too young is a huge challenge. The "affirmation" should be of that person's value as a human being and their right to be treated gently and not to be manipulated as part of a very vocal minority campaign.

By all means respect the rights of people who choose to transition - I absolutely endorse that; but do not exploit vulnerable young people.

If only people could behave and dress according to their wishes without feeling the need to be labelled as male or female. Grayson Perry is good on this subject.

Lisz · 28/08/2020 13:26

Could have sent the award back quietly of course. Is it 'brave' to do it in the full glare of the world's media with a lengthy self-serving spiel attached. Trumpian bravery IMO.

Datun · 28/08/2020 13:28

Biological sex is outdated now. You couldn't make this shit up.

They have, though.

Transmen are not women who want to be men, or who identify as masculine; they are actual men. Actual biological men, with a different kind of anatomy.

Except they can't define any of the words. You just have to take it on trust.

Datun · 28/08/2020 13:29

@Lisz

Could have sent the award back quietly of course. Is it 'brave' to do it in the full glare of the world's media with a lengthy self-serving spiel attached. Trumpian bravery IMO.
If you think the reaction J. K. Rowling is going to get will be 'self-serving', you're not paying attention.
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