Ed Davey wants to listen and rebuild the Lib Dems: let's talk to him

[Shedbuilder]

Just heard that Ed Davey has won the ballot to lead the Lib Dems. His opponent was Layla Moran, the pansexual who sees souls (and also a rather troubled soul herself, judging from things she revealed in a fairly recent interview). So some sanity prevails.

Davey has declared his desire the rebuild the LDs by listening to what ordinary people have to say, so let's tell him. We want an end to all TWAW nonsense and he can rebuild his party and get a pretty instant following if he just stands against the TRAs and supports women's rights. I'm one of thousands, possibly millions, of women who used to be Labour and am now politically homeless. If the LDs were to come out as a party that supported women and girls and not a tool of the MRAs he can have my vote.

Is there a single article/ link I can include in my email to him that demonstrates the plight of the left-centre woman in search of a party she can sign up to? Would Suzanne Moore's Spectator article be any good? Surely Suzanne Moore writing in the Spectator with hundreds of former Labour women applauding should make the point that everything's up for grabs to the party who cares to side with women?

No because he prefers to listen to Helen Belcher. What would we know?

Didn't he appear on a Mumsnet chat on this topic already? He knows the arguments and has picked a side.

He won’t listen to any of us, that party is lost and deserves to fade into history

When ed says ordinary people, he doesn't mean women. He has no interest in what women have to say.

From memory his view is that he has listened but that what we say is unimportant or overblown.

Is there any point? He’s already made his position on gender ideology perfectly clear, and it’s a position that means Lib Dems are not an option for my vote at all.

Perhaps he has changed his mind.

Brave women on all sides of the political spectrum have stood up and spoken out, often at personal risk. The least we can do in support is to speak up when invited to do so.

Ed has described callers who asked questions about sex based rights, transphobic.

The lib dems are a lost cause, its best to focus efforts elsewhere.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4004271-Ed-Davey-and-Layla-Moran

It would be like flogging a dead horse, OP. Ed Davey will only listen to those 'ordinary' people who say what he wants to hear, he has no interest in listening to women, he only listens to TW and made that abundantly clear on the Web Chat. He wouldn't go anywhere near, let alone listen to any of those 'ordinary' working class people in the red wall areas who switched from Labour to Conservative because of Brexit.

A pp is right his Party deserves to fade away and become a footnote in history.

I went to see Ed Davey about this a couple of years ago. He pretended to be interested and pretended to agree with a lot of things. He absolutely understood the issues.
I remember being very surprised when later I read him saying the opposite.
Imo he’s the worst type of slimy politician who will say what he thinks you want to hear.
No spine, no integrity. I will never vote for him (or the LibDems while he’s in charge)

I've learned the hard way not to be purist and I'd love to have a centre-left party to vote for so, if Ed Davey were to change his mind, I would be delighted.
I'm not holding my breath but it's possibly just a tad more likely than Layla Moran, so there's that.

You can try but I doubt it’ll do much good.

Anyway, sure the LibDems will pick up loads of votes from under 18s and Americans who love this stance on twitter won’t they? Oh, wait...

Well, I've sent him an email anyway and reminded him of the thousands of disenfranchised women just looking for a home. And asked questions about sport and asked if he has daughters or granddaughters and what he'll say to them when when they're materially affected. Drip, drip, drip.

We need to start a Women's Party, don't we?

Davey has declared his desire the rebuild the LDs by listening to what ordinary people have to say

That old chestnut....

They all pull that one out. They mean by 'ordinary people' the people they agree with, whose views are compatible with theirs, and what they mean by 'listening' is 'ignore totally while doing our own thing in our own way'. They all mean this. Labour do - and go on insisting it wants back the Labour heartlands it lost while representing views and interests wholly incompatible with. The Conservatives do.

We're in the era of the professional politician, rarely with any actual life experience, who believes in Mandelson's post democratic era where the politicians know what's best and enforce it on the plebs. And find general elections a stupid pain in the bum because the plebs shouldn't be allowed to vote anyway, they don't know what's right or wrong and they should just shut up and do what their betters tell them.

I've entered a post politician era. I'm at the point now of believing wanting to do the job and volunteering for it should lead to automatic disqualification, and extensive psychological testing should take place before a post is confirmed. Dismissing female safety because of a personal talent in 'seeing souls' for example should be an automatic disqualification as unfit to hold any form of professional post.

We tried that with his MN web chat. It didn't go well.

He's very resolute in his view that women need to shut up.

Webchat June 2019

The twitter thread started by Ed re the Webchat
twitter.com/EdwardJDavey/status/1140930197476315136

See this message for Ed’s answer to ‘define woman’
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/3614469-Webchat-with-Ed-Davey-Lib-Dem-leadership-candidate-on-Tuesday-18-June-at-1-30pm?msgid=87905395

Copied below in full (TL:DR yes, this is his verbose answer to a very simple question, no he never does answer the question, well ok he does define transwoman as woman and that’s it.)

I support the proposed reform of the Gender Recognition Act to allow self-certification - both for philosophical reasons and for practical reasons.

Philosophically, I believe in the freedom of the individual to be who they want to be - and not to be told who they are by society. When society dictates to individuals, unhappiness and discrimination are not far behind. So for me, a trans woman is a woman, and a trans man is a man. For me, that's not a policy position, it's their reality and I respect it.

Practically, I'm alarmed at the amount of discrimination against trans people. The bullying and the violence faced by trans people should concern everyone, not least because the suicide rate amongst trans people is significantly higher than the general population. And as someone who believes everyone is equal and everyone deserves equal respect, I strongly believe we must tackle such discrimination - just as we still must do more to win full equality for the wider LGBT+ community, for women, ethnic minorities, the disabled and other groups who can face discrimination.

Lets face it women continue to suffer discrimination - dismissal due to pregnancy, low conviction rates of rape, period poverty, forced marriage, FGM. Surely we need to unite not divide in the face of inequality?

While I don't pretend to be an expert, I do find the different arguments and evidence that trans women are somehow a danger to other women totally unconvincing. Like all bad arguments, they take one or two rare incidents, and try to hang a full-blown thesis on them. These are not "legitimate concerns' and I don't believe we should engage with them.

So while I know my views will not find favour with everyone on Mumsnet, that's what they are. I've had this debate at length with a number of people on both sides and I realise feelings run high. Yet I'm 100% clear of my position.

Honestly even if he did a volte face I wouldn't believe him, so I still would never vote for him.
Same for every politician who may in future agree with gc. I've seen too many times the trick of saying to my face what I want to hear and completely changing when in a position to effect change.

Lets face it women continue to suffer discrimination - dismissal due to pregnancy, low conviction rates of rape, period poverty, forced marriage, FGM. Surely we need to unite not divide in the face of inequality?

How do any of these apply to transwomen?

He won't listen. We tried to talk to him but he ignored us.

They don’t which is why TWAW is such bullshit

TW suffer from other issues that should be addressed, but all of what he’s listed only apply to women

And he knows that because he’s not an idiot

But LD have been completely Belchered - there’s no hope of change for years if not decades from them

These are not "legitimate concerns'

Women being excluded from any space so that males may take their choice from all the spaces is not a legitimate concern to him.

Disabled women, women of minority cultures, women of several minority faiths and women who have experienced sexual assault being excluded from accessing services, including life saving ones such as refuges, medical treatment and hospital wards, is not a legitimate concern to him.

Women being afraid to escape life threatening domestic violence because they cannot share refuges with male people, and women sleeping rough because they have no refuge provision (as a MNetter does) is not a legitimate concern to him.

Female children being raised that they may not say 'no' to a male about their body, their boundaries, undressing in front of him if it upsets him, is not a legitimate concern to him.

Females no longer being allowed privacy, dignity, bodily autonomy, is not a legitimate concern to him.

Females being raped in prison by males with a long history of sexually assaulting females is not a legitimate concern to him.

When someone tells you who he is, believe him.

Yeah that’s Ed. Won’t listen unless we bleat out the words he wants to hear

And that’s not words from women