Ed Davey wants to listen and rebuild the Lib Dems: let's talk to him

[Shedbuilder]

Just heard that Ed Davey has won the ballot to lead the Lib Dems. His opponent was Layla Moran, the pansexual who sees souls (and also a rather troubled soul herself, judging from things she revealed in a fairly recent interview). So some sanity prevails.

Davey has declared his desire the rebuild the LDs by listening to what ordinary people have to say, so let's tell him. We want an end to all TWAW nonsense and he can rebuild his party and get a pretty instant following if he just stands against the TRAs and supports women's rights. I'm one of thousands, possibly millions, of women who used to be Labour and am now politically homeless. If the LDs were to come out as a party that supported women and girls and not a tool of the MRAs he can have my vote.

Is there a single article/ link I can include in my email to him that demonstrates the plight of the left-centre woman in search of a party she can sign up to? Would Suzanne Moore's Spectator article be any good? Surely Suzanne Moore writing in the Spectator with hundreds of former Labour women applauding should make the point that everything's up for grabs to the party who cares to side with women?

Nope.

Sorry, OP, I didn't mean to address that blunt comment to you - more to Ed Davey, who can just whiffle off somewhere and get on with whatever it is he thinks he's doing.

@Mollscroll

No because he prefers to listen to Helen Belcher. What would we know?

This

Practically, I'm alarmed at the amount of discrimination against trans people. Then you might be more reassured if you read some of these threads back again. It isn't trans people that many posters have issues with. It is Trans Activists who doirectly threaten women online and in real life, succeeding in silencing any debate there might be had.

You can remain 100% clear on your view but please unblinker yourself. It is not the odd icidnet here and there, it is systematic, has already affected many women in the UK, physically, emotionally and financially.

Do not dismiss the real life acts ofthose TRAs.
Do not confuse the very string pushback against TRA actions with any dislike of trans people or a desire to see them harmed. That is the rhetoric of the TRA, the lie they sell to retian their victim status!

You seem to be refusing to hear the real voices of many posters here but you do repeat some of the many lies and obfuscations TRAs spout

the suicide rate amongst trans people is significantly higher than the general population that, for example, is demonstrably untrue in the UK and most other places in the world. It was taken out of context from a study into Brazilian sex workers...

There are many threads with the real research data in on FWR. Read and learn the facts rather than repeating the lies you have been told and not checked!

I was a party member but quit over this. I'm also the one who did the phone in with Jo Swinson so I doubt they'd want me back in tbh.

‘Voters don’t believe we are on the side of ordinary people’ - newly elected @LibDems leader Sir Ed Davey delivers some uncomfortable truths

Cmon Ed. Tell us more about uncomfortable truths.

Lets face it women continue to suffer discrimination - dismissal due to pregnancy, low conviction rates of rape, period poverty, forced marriage, FGM. Surely we need to unite not divide in the face of inequality?

How do any of these apply to transwomen?

We should all realise that these issues are ‘cis privilege’ against the most vulnerable group in society who don’t actually suffer from any of this.

While I don't pretend to be an expert, I do find the different arguments and evidence that trans women are somehow a danger to other women totally unconvincing. Like all bad arguments, they take one or two rare incidents, and try to hang a full-blown thesis on them. These are not "legitimate concerns' and I don't believe we should engage with them.

The logical conclusion of this is that we shouldn't ban all men from women's spaces just because of a few bad ones as most men are not dangerous.

sure the LibDems will pick up loads of votes from under 18s and Americans who love this stance on twitter won’t they? Oh, wait...

This what baffles me about politicians who toe the trans line, Delirium. Do they genuinely not see, or hear, the people they need to vote for them? We've all watched the LibDems and now the Labour Party collapse into irrelevance because they ignore their constituencies. But nothing wakes them up.

While I don't pretend to be an expert, I do find the different arguments and evidence that trans women are somehow a danger to other women totally unconvincing.

Transwomen are no more dangerous to women than non-trans men are. But they are no less dangerous either. They commit crimes (including sexual offences) at the same rate as men. For women's privacy and safety, most men are kept out of women's facilities. Therefore allowing transwomen into single-sex women's facilities obviously puts women at risk.

Like all bad arguments, they take one or two rare incidents, and try to hang a full-blown thesis on them.

Take a look at the lists on http://transcrimeuk.com to see how 'rare' these offences are.

These are not "legitimate concerns' and I don't believe we should engage with them.

These concerns don't look legitimate to someone who is unconcerned about women's rights to privacy and safety.

The irony is the Green Party MAY be about to elect a leader and/or deputy who answers the question, "What is a woman?" with "Adult human female."

I hope that happens. Be very interesting because both parties fish in the same pool for votes.

Quick reminder from ED for all the women on here that he is interested in what we have to say, but then can we all please STFU

mobile.twitter.com/LBC/status/1283844809405464576

How exactly is discrimination against trans people (unspecified as to what and how) going to be fixed by men sacrificing female rights and spaces to other males?

@EdgeOfACoin

Lets face it women continue to suffer discrimination - dismissal due to pregnancy, low conviction rates of rape, period poverty, forced marriage, FGM. Surely we need to unite not divide in the face of inequality?

How do any of these apply to transwomen?

It is a good question. And I asked someone today just how many transwomen truly work to fight against these issues side by side with women. Women who they assure they 'stand with'? I am still waiting to see them do it.

Any one?

It seems to be all about 'acceptance' and access to women's rights rather than universally fighting for these issues above.

I got a patronising and scolding email from him saying (in effect) TWAW and STFU.
Never voting LD again. Or even giving them a minute’s thought.

It is a good question. And I asked someone today just how many transwomen truly work to fight against these issues side by side with women. Women who they assure they 'stand with'? I am still waiting to see them do it.

The fact is, no transwoman will ever be pregnant. Will ever have a period. Will ever be taken as a young child and have their vagina and clitoris cut against their will for cultural or religious reasons. Will ever go through the menopause. No transwoman, not one transwoman, no matter how empathetic, will ever directly experience any of those things. That's just a fact.

Transwomen could be wonderful allies to women. But they are not women.

(And yes, not ALL women experience ALL of these things. But ONLY women do.)

I would also like to know what experiences are uniquely shared by only women and transwomen that are not also shared by men and transmen. It is a genuine question.

Quick reminder from ED for all the women on here that he is interested in what we have to say, but then can we all please STFU

His smug, patronising tone in that clip is unbearable. Not just "I disagree with some of my constituents" but "My beliefs are superior in every single way".

just how many transwomen truly work to fight against these issues side by side with women. Women who they assure they 'stand with'?

I have seen plenty of replies that these issues have nothing to do with being a woman. In fact it is transphobic (apparently) to imply those issues are sex based. Because unless you separate women's issues and biology from the concept of women, male people are excluded.

The fact this leaves 51% of the population excluded from talking about their bodies, the experiences they have in common and many key parts of life experience that only biologically female people can have and understand (and which females have fought for centuries to be able to talk about) is irrelevant, as Davey is proving, because none of it affects male people. These things don't matter to male people, they're not even on their radar, they have no understanding or interest because nothing to do with them. And therefore it's unnecessary to the human race. Obviously. See: Misogyny. And 'Default human'. And 'Male supremacism'.

Yes, you would think there was room to say here is the TW experience and here is the TM experience and here is the female experience and the male experience and here's the intersectionality and the unique bits and it could all exist respectfully alongside with some shared interests and agendas. But no.

Michelle

Indeed - ED’s a liberal and the liberal position is to let people be who they are - except of course, if you are a woman and you state you are a woman because of your biology - which if course is the only way to define womanhood.

I have a vote waiting to be cast. It can go to the first party who'll protect the rights of vulnerable women to single sex spaces.

I don't consider myself to be vulnerable, but, I'd still quite like to try on clothes in M+S* without hearing some bloke frothing away in the next cubicle.

(*just joking, I don't shop there anymore)

ED’s a liberal and the liberal position is to let people be who they are

But there’s no liberal reason let people be who they are not. There has to be some foundation to these assertions about who people are. Nailing down the foundation for these assertions is, as we know, impossible.

The Lib Dems are the worst....just forget it.

Lets face it women continue to suffer discrimination - dismissal due to pregnancy, low conviction rates of rape, period poverty, forced marriage, FGM. Surely we need to unite not divide in the face of inequality?

That's right, women. Not men, not even men who think they are women. Get that into your damn empty, useless heads....

Mollscroll

Indeed.