Am I non binary?

[purplewolfie]

Hello everyone. My sister's just come out as nonbinary and I got upset tonight as I was trying to explain how I'm not a fan of gender expectations and stereotypes - now it seems to be that my (woke-ish) family think I'm a non binary in denial and that this is why I'm upset and feeling a sense of injustice and unfairness. I said that I felt taking on a non binary identity just removes me from the fight - just makes the issue about me and not society.
They swear blind that there are tonnes of people who wake very morning feeling their gender is right and proper and, if I'm not in this camp, then I must be non binary. Is this right? I want to hold up the concept of gender to a spotlight and maybe get rid of it - they say the politically active thing to do is to remove myself from the equation and come as non binary. My instinct is that this is a cop out and individualistic. I got upset. My head is screwed :(

Okay, so what i'd want to ask your family is this.
Sex exists, everyone has one, in a tiny proportion of cases it might be difficult to determine. Two classes M/F. It affects your physical body, medical needs etc. Objectively verifiable. Doesn't change.
Gender identity - some people have one, some don't. 76 or however many different classes. Subjective. May change.

I can see plenty of reasons we might need to discriminate by physical sex to ensure equal outcomes, correct medical care etc.

As gender has no physical consequences (and an impractical number of classes), when is it ever necessary or appropriate to discriminate by gender? What is the point of the classification? Is it not just formalising sexism?

Everyone’s non-binary. It’s just most people a) don’t believe in gender guff so wouldn’t use that label, and b) aren’t so narcissistic that they want to mark themselves out as special while marking everyone else as boring and a dull collection of gender stereotypes.

“I’m NB - all the rest of you just conform to sad old gender stereotypes”.

The truth is - in my opinion - that anyone who feels the need to say they’re NB is someone who’s mentally stuck in the 1950s. Or who’s desperate for attention.

I’d just leave them to it and tell them that this is 2020 and it’s perfectly possible for women to look ‘masculine’ or do ‘men’s things’. If they persisted, I’d ask why they were indirectly labelling other people and why they thought they were more special than everyone else.

Enby and it’s ‘cooler’ sibling ‘genderqueer’ really get my goat. It’s like the last few decades never happened.

@ErrolTheDragon

My instinct is that this is a cop out and individualistic. I got upset. My head is screwed

...on the right way and theirs isn't.
The politically active thing to do is to try to dismantle restrictive gender stereotypes for everyone.

Couldn't agree more! You are right OP. Don't let them mess with your head.

Did uhmmmmmm not come back to educate us on what a meaningful and useful concept non-binary is?

There's a wonderful thread here about some of the issues - it's a subreddit that TRAs are always trying to get banned but it survives. One of the best comments is from someone who has actual gender dysphoria (to the extent they have to shower with their eyes closed) saying how they hate NBs claiming that dysphoria doesn't exist and adopting a pain free "identity" because they think it makes them look "cool".

www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/comments/iarpky/is_it_wrong_to_be_uncomfortable_with_the/

I'm non-binary! I love make-up, I also love trains (because liking a vehicle that gets you from A to B is sooo manly!)
Deep sarcasm is involved here. I'm sick of this crap.
And now I'm wondering what I do think about when I wake up. This morning (yesterday) it was waking up, wondering if I'd set my alarm for work, and then remembering it was Wednesday and going back to sleep cos it's one of my days off.

why does everything need to be labelled. I don't like labels.

I am me, I wake up feeling like me. I am female biologically and have no idea how biological males feel.

Nobody knows how it feels to be anymore but themselves. No label needed. Aaaarrrrgggghhhh

[quote BlusteryShowers]**@DidoLamenting* the point I was making was that Male and female stereotypes are just that. Every individual person has different traits, likes and dislikes, but gender ideology would have us believe that if you like stereotypically "feminine" stuff then you must be a woman. I reject that ideology and point out that almost everyone has some traits, likes and dislikes that would stereotypically* be associated with the opposite sex. [/quote]
You have missed the point of my comment. I am perfectly aware that there are such stereotypes.

The point I was making is that it is absurd, as you did, to include "enjoys spending time with their children" as something which is supposedly not a stereotypical activity for a man.

It's yet another example of FWR posters creating ridiculous lists of activities which they say are seen by society as stereotypically masculine or feminine which actually society sees as nothing of the sort.

I don't know what the point of this other than creating lists for FWR posters to tick off how "gender-non-conforming" they are.

My favourite utterly ridiculous ones were "riding a bike" and "likes" music" which I've seen trotted out as evidence of "gender-non-conformity"

Hi, purplewolfie , thanks for this thread as I have a few questions about non-binary that I'm hoping I can find the answers to here.
I can believe that some people may feel like they are born in the wrong body because nobody knows what it feels to be anybody else but does this mean they feel like the opposite sex as those people also don't know what that feels like so how could they know that's what they're feeling? One person's idea of what being a man or woman feels like may be completely different to another's, I would hazard a guess that what any one person feels, is different, in varying degrees from everybody else, as we are all unique and have different influences shaping our lives as soon as we are born. In respect to non-binary, I'm assuming they don't 'feel' like a man or a woman but again, I would say that there is no one way of feeling like a man or a woman so they may just really feel like themselves. Maybe they do feel this would opt them out of some things but their body would still function according to their sex. I'm assuming they don't have any surgery but I don't know, this was one of my questions along with how does one "mark themselves out" as it were, as non-binary, and how does being a "gay non-binary" work?
I would love to hear some examples of "they insisted that they know loads of people who celebrate their gender daily" as I have no idea what they are talking about!
I think, if I were in your shoes, I would say, that I can only feel like myself and no-one else knows how that feels, I'm not a fan of gender expectations and stereotypes but I recognise I have a female body, you can label me, if you want, whatever you want, it won't change who/what I am

but does this mean they feel like the opposite sex as those people also don't know what that feels like so how could they know that's what they're feeling?

Yes, I've always wondered this.

It's actually a totally binary way of thinking.

As is saying you're "non-binary" because that assumes everyone else is binary.

I saw a good meme the other day - something like:
Transpeople understand that gender is oppression. They try to change their gender.

Feminists understand that gender is oppressive. They try to change the oppression.

Yes - the binary/non binary binary.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Yes - the binary/non binary binary.

So....did your parents (or step parents or any other relations involved in the conversation) who presumably don't identify as non binary explain how exactly they wake up every morning and feel "binary" and happy that their gender matches their assigned sex? Out of interest how old were they when they first realised this?

And then after this happy awakening, when they go about their day, do they only perform tasks associated with their binary gender identity? And if your father ever does the washing, or your mother wears a blue shirt, do they feel that this is them questioning their assigned sex and if so how would they react if you suggested this made them non binary?

Would they agree and basically have to conclude that everyone is somewhere on the non binary scale and therefore your sister coming out as non binary is pointless?

Or would they be offended at the very suggestion in which case a) they are not as woke and accepting as they like to think they are and b) have to conclude you were right

To me, non-binary sounds like where people end up when they've talked themselves right back round in a circle.

In the woke world where gender stereotypes rule, if you can't convince yourself that you're trans, but you don't act like a stereotypical parody of a male/female, then you must be 'non-binary'.

Basically back where you started. Just being 'a person.' Whoo, welcome back to the normal world with everyday people in it - wow it's like being back in the 80s or something. Where's my dungarees?!

Send your family a nice cake, and spend less time with them.

Sounds exhausting.

FizzyGreenWater, I so agree. I thought we had advanced further on the feminist path than this. To be told that short hair means someone is nonbinary if not a man seems like a giant leap backward for womankind. Besides, spending so much energy on the gender identity question must be incredibly tiring and ultimately fruitless.