Am I non binary?

[purplewolfie]

Hello everyone. My sister's just come out as nonbinary and I got upset tonight as I was trying to explain how I'm not a fan of gender expectations and stereotypes - now it seems to be that my (woke-ish) family think I'm a non binary in denial and that this is why I'm upset and feeling a sense of injustice and unfairness. I said that I felt taking on a non binary identity just removes me from the fight - just makes the issue about me and not society.
They swear blind that there are tonnes of people who wake very morning feeling their gender is right and proper and, if I'm not in this camp, then I must be non binary. Is this right? I want to hold up the concept of gender to a spotlight and maybe get rid of it - they say the politically active thing to do is to remove myself from the equation and come as non binary. My instinct is that this is a cop out and individualistic. I got upset. My head is screwed :(

OP sorry if it's already been asked but may I ask:

Does your sister fancy men or women?

And has becoming "non binary" improved (or impacted in any way) her dating possibilities?

She's gay. She's been out about 10 years.

Ah. Supplementary question:

Are your parents fine with your sister being a lesbian?

I said that I felt taking on a non binary identity just removes me from the fight - just makes the issue about me and not society.

With you there, sister. The new gender ideology is a convenient way not to have to organise politically or become an activist - people think they can 'identify out' of oppression, because - it's all discourse, innit?

Tell them you are gender non-conforming.

Which is much more radical & revolutionary.

They swear blind that there are tonnes of people who wake very morning feeling their gender is right and proper...

I am a pretty gender non-conforming woman, and I have never, ever contemplated my gender. Not even as a young tomboy with short hair and a collection of Transformers toys.

Yep. Super supportive.

i would ignore the posters claiming non binary isn't a thing. they are the same ones who will get their knickers in a twist over someone writing 'gender' instead of 'sex'.

Mostly everyone is "non binary". I can't think of many people I know who are hyper masculine or feminine. Such standards are broadly socially constructed anyway.

Most of the women I know have an interest in at least one sport, spend most of their time in trainers and are partial to a beer. Most of the men I know enjoy a glass of prosecco, shed a tear at a sad film and enjoy spending time with their children.

The gender stuff is extremely regressive. People are just people. Female people and male people have different bodies. That's pretty much it.

also, if you are non binary, you're not removing yourself from 'the fight', men, women, trans men, trans women and non binary people alike help with the 'fight'. we're all in it together (excluding the middle aged misogynistic men, who are irrelevant anyway).

@uhmmmmmm

i would ignore the posters claiming non binary isn't a thing. they are the same ones who will get their knickers in a twist over someone writing 'gender' instead of 'sex'.

The OP doesn’t believe enby is a thing, so I’m not sure who your comment is directed at here?

@ItsLateHumpty ah, oops. my statement still stands though.

every time a non conforming woman declares themselves non binary they reinforce the extremes of gender expectation and narrow the definition of woman

This is completely right, and you too OP have explained it very articulately too. And you are right that this NB is the culmination of an individualistic society. Don't like sex stereotypes? Don't try to fight to end these stereotypes for everyone - just say you have opted out for yourself, give yourself a special name for this, and sit back and wait for your woke pat on the back. Job done (except it isn't - all you have done is reinforce these stereotypes for everyone else).

The implication she is making is that woman who do not declare they are NB or Genderqueer (and tolerate the use of female pronouns) are gender conformists.

I saw a video a few days ago about what it means to be non binary.One person in the video said that they don't fit into the "restrictive boxes of man or woman."
I find it interesting , actully horrifying, that some people who are non binary are having masectomies but other non binary people wear lipstick and skirts to show their non binary identity.

.

@lastleafintheforest

every time a non conforming woman declares themselves non binary they reinforce the extremes of gender expectation and narrow the definition of woman

This is completely right, and you too OP have explained it very articulately too. And you are right that this NB is the culmination of an individualistic society. Don't like sex stereotypes? Don't try to fight to end these stereotypes for everyone - just say you have opted out for yourself, give yourself a special name for this, and sit back and wait for your woke pat on the back. Job done (except it isn't - all you have done is reinforce these stereotypes for everyone else).

Magdelen Berns talks about this phenomenon here -

m.youtube.com/watch?v=0PPV83fgJx0

uhmmmmmm

Ok, give me your best description: what is the non-binary thing?

also, if you are non binary, you're not removing yourself from 'the fight'

Oh true, you’re putting every other woman into The Woman gender box, just like the patriarchy does. Totally revolutionary amirite?

Only if you think others should fit into the binary boxes. I'm specshial basically.

Your family are sexist even though "some of their best friends are gender non-conforming".

Not a lot you can do about it other than react a bit like you would to a racist great aunt. Distance yourself from the -ist comments by stating your disagreement but don't go looking for a fight.

Hang out with other people more than your family.

Learn the art of staying pleasantly tipsy over Christmas while biting your tongue and eye rolling from time to time.

Is this for real?

Most of the men I know enjoy a glass of prosecco, shed a tear at a sad film and enjoy spending time with their children

How is men enjoying spending time with their children evidence of gender non- conformity? That's another example of this forum's obsession with categorising perfectly normal activities done by men and women but which according to posters here are supposedly seen by society as stereotypes for one sex.

Most of the women I know have an interest in at least one sport, spend most of their time in trainers and are partial to a beer

I loathe sport, have never owned trainers and beer is foul (actually so is prosecco)

Your familes argument makes no sense to me. According to them I would be none binary, I don't confirm particularly to our notions of feminine. But my inclinations are nothing to do with my gender, I'm a package of personality and body and am a woman and have no qualms or doubts about that, neither does my dh even though I am handy with tools, hate hair and make up faff, am more comfortable in blokey activities etc. I occasionally get frustrated that this seems to mean some people think I am less of a person, but I view that as their social conditioning not me being queer, I'm not.

Ah, thanks for the Magdalen Burns link. So refreshing, even after all this time.

Here's another.

*Berns, sorry. Autoconk.

There's nothing wrong with being non - binary - if other people are telling you you are though even if you have said or indicated nothing of the sort, feel free to tell them to nob off, stand up for yourself!
You know you. Don't let anyone else tell you what you are or aren't.

Yesterday 15:03 uhmmmmmm
also, if you are non binary, you're not removing yourself from 'the fight', men, women, trans men, trans women and non binary people alike help with the 'fight'. we're all in it together smile (excluding the middle aged misogynistic men, who are irrelevant anyway).

So I can’t tell who/what uhm thinks we are we fighting? Just middle aged men? Do men leave the good team and become misogynistic at 35? Unless they are trans/NB?

@DidoLamenting the point I was making was that Male and female stereotypes are just that. Every individual person has different traits, likes and dislikes, but gender ideology would have us believe that if you like stereotypically "feminine" stuff then you must be a woman. I reject that ideology and point out that almost everyone has some traits, likes and dislikes that would stereotypically be associated with the opposite sex.