Why 'MAP'?

[JellySlice]

Why has 'Minor Attracted Person' replaced 'paedophile'?

I was thinking about this the other day actually, about how successful the rebranding has been. Not to the extent that it's actually removed the stigma or legitimised it, but I definitely see more people saying MAP than paedophile now. Maybe not on MN but on twitter, and on YouTube. A lot of platforms like YouTube demonitise your videos if you use words like paedophile so even just from that perspective MAP is a preferable choice of word for some content creators. I'm also starting more and more to see people drawing a distinction between MAPs and NOMAPs (non offending maps). I was shocked to find recently a YouTube I follow (and usually admire) discussing NOMAPs in one of her videos and describing them as "virtuous", "commendable" and "amazing". Because not raping children is sooooo virtuous. But the idea that stoically resisting your map tendancies is some superhuman act of virtue is something I expect to see more and more in the next few years. That's going to be the foot in the door that does the heavy lifting of shifting the Overton window. Just like fully transitioned dysphoric people were the foot in the door for the acceptance of non transitioning non dysphoria fetishists, my prediction is that the "super virtuous" NOMAPs will be the foot in the door for the acceptance of maps. Please note I am not saying there is an overlap between these 2 groups. I really think people will go for it as well. The idea that men should be allowed to do whatever they want sexually to whoever they want whenever they want, and that sex is a physical need for men, is so deeply held by so many that an attempt by a group to resist their sexual urges will be seen by many as the greatest act of virtue. Just look how many people argue that men have the right to rape and sexually abuse women through porn and prostitution. There's a thread on AIBU right now where many people are arguing for a mans right to share pornographic images of himself with an audience dominated by children with autism, because its "his body his choice". Or the troll/LOL doll thread where so many seemingly couldn't see the problem with toys for children that normalise sexual behaviour. I really think that we need to push back hard against any chances in language around paedophilia because we only seem to be a half step away from people being OK with it as it is. And once the change in language takes root it'll be a hard position to row back from, as we've already seen in areas around gender/sex work.

I believe their goal is for it to be classed as a sexuality so they can be protected under LGBT+.

An MAP is sexually attracted to people who are minors

'Minor' covers anyone under the age of consent, not just those who are close to the age of consent, and even if you want to draw a distinction, specific attraction to people under the age of consent (as opposed to contemporaries who happen to be under the age of consent) still implies abuse because of the imbalance in power.

I have never seen this used in any mainstream place. I have never seen it used on mums net unless to talk about why it is unacceptable. I have never heard anybody use it either. I don't think that it is becoming unacceptable term. As previous posters have said I think it is simply a way of Paedophiles trying to make themselves sound better. It's nonsensical to think it will get added to the LBGT plus. It has absolutely nothing to do with LGBT+. Any attempt made to link it are disgraceful.

becoming an acceptable

@RCBadger

Paedophile and MAP are not necessarily the same thing. A paedophile is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. An MAP is sexually attracted to people who are minors. If the minor is considered under the age of consent, then having sex with them if you an adult is a crime. But it's not the same as paedophilia.

Incorrect. There are MAPs or paedophiles all over twitter with the age they prefer in their bios and they range from very young to 15. Unless you think attraction to an 8 year old isn't paedophilia you are falling for the rebranding yourself. You may not have intended this but your post feels like the normalising of sexualising children and young teenagers is working.

I understand that people like to make a distinction between those attracted to teens (Ephebophilia attraction to those ranging from 15 - 19 and paedophilia being prepubescent children) and to children but I find a grown man pursuing a 15 year old just as problematic - I have a 15 year old CHILD myself.

I think we have seen from the latest gender issues that changing words can lead to changed perceptions. In any event, as I have said there seems to be plenty of self-proclaimed "MAPs" advertising their attraction to 6 - 8 year olds on line. So what you understand by "MAP" doesn't seem to be something they share.

I don't think it's about widening the meaning on child abuse to include post pubescent minors - because there is already a - phile word for that.

I think it's just a rebrand. Move away from the word that people associate with criminal behavior and onto somthing more fluffy.

What I don't get it MAP minor attacked person NOMAP non offending minor attacked person.

So anyone saying they are a MAP are admitting to actively engaging in child abuse - so why arnt the police investigating them or at least checking their hard drives?

@CasuallyMasculine

I thought, as a pp mentioned, that it was all about redefining paedophilia as just another sexual attraction, rather than as the criminal behaviour that it is.

I think that is the purpose of the re-branding too as well as making the idea more palatable alongside the idea children can understand complex concepts like "gender" and therefore, can consent. I would have included this in my original post but I was sloooooow and this came after.

Skyliner- they've said it themselves that they want to be included in LGBT+. It's not something I've just made up to cause friction, I'm not saying they'll ever be excepted but it's what they want

@JellySlice

Why has 'Minor Attracted Person' replaced 'paedophile'?

Because it's easier to spell/type. People are that lazy.

I was shocked to find recently a YouTube I follow (and usually admire) discussing NOMAPs in one of her videos and describing them as "virtuous", "commendable" and "amazing". Because not raping children is sooooo virtuous. But the idea that stoically resisting your map tendancies is some superhuman act of virtue is something I expect to see more and more in the next few years. That's going to be the foot in the door that does the heavy lifting of shifting the Overton window. Just like fully transitioned dysphoric people were the foot in the door for the acceptance of non transitioning non dysphoria fetishists, my prediction is that the "super virtuous" NOMAPs will be the foot in the door for the acceptance of maps.

This is an excellent post ByGrabtharsHammer and I fear you are right, this is a marketing exercise which is having/will have the worrying results that you have detailed here. It really is something we should be alerted to. As a parenting site MN as a community should be watching this and calling it out.

Skyliner 'kinks' are already included in LGBT+ and there is already confusion over whether a Pride event that celebrates kinks can be 'family friendly'. Many kinks that seem to be viewed as 'main stream' by pride organisers - e.g. furries - have an obvious appeal for children.

mobile.twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1294889727741616128

Kathleen Stock
@Docstockk
The thought-crushingly banal language of "diversity and inclusion" can be used for literally any cause.

"Some felt that not all kinks were represented and there was a lack of diversity within the groups that were present"

UK Pride Organisers Network

"Is your Pride event REALLY inclusive of everyone within the LGBTQ+ community?

We recently shared a survey focusing on the inclusion of Pups, Furries & Kinksters at Pride."

There have been a lot of comments on this tweet about inclusion of 'kinksters' because one of the questions they asked was whether a 'physical kink area' should be 18+, and a significant proportion of respondents appear to have said no.

The fact that age of consent for an 8 year old is discussed on a public domain is abhorrent and that twitter is enabling advocacy for child abuse. It needs to be brought to the attention of mainstream media. I am not sure where it lands in terms of free speech but as child sexual abuse is criminal act then surely anything that could be construed to incite it shouldnt be allowed under free speech?

@RCBadger

Paedophile and MAP are not necessarily the same thing. A paedophile is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. An MAP is sexually attracted to people who are minors. If the minor is considered under the age of consent, then having sex with them if you an adult is a crime. But it's not the same as paedophilia.

Let’s just call them all nonces and be done with.

Bloody hell, that Twitter exchange motherofmonsters. I feel sick.

RCBadger

“Paedophile and MAP are not necessarily the same thing. A paedophile is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. An MAP is sexually attracted to people who are minors. If the minor is considered under the age of consent, then having sex with them if you an adult is a crime. But it's not the same as paedophilia.”

There’s already a term (used a few times already on this thread) for someone attracted to adolescent children – hebephile.

Paedophile is (rightly) such a toxic word I guess if it’s in your twitter bio it would show exactly who you are. But MAP is not well known (I’ve heard it used on a crime/comedy podcast and seen it used here, it’s not “out in the wild” yet) so looks more wholesome maybe? It is most definitely not though. It’s the same old predators in cleaner clothes.

And it may be unknown to the wider public but there are many words we didn’t routinely use a few years ago that are now common currency, if a term is pushed it will be accepted. We don’t have to accept it.

As for why aren’t they being investigated? Charitably I’d say the police don’t have the time. Uncharitably I’d say they don’t give enough of a shit- like a lot of people.

Search for NOMAP on Twitter, if you have a strong stomach for it. The amount of accounts,the discussions, the justification, just everything about it...

What's worse is that I found quite a large amount of young teens(youngest was 13) aligning themselves with this shit and they have found their "community ".

And twitter thinks this is all ok . I despair sometimes...

Look up the YouTuber "ready to glare", she has a video on the rise of child "map allies", some of whom are openly disclosing their history of CSA and even putting in their twitter/tumblr bios that they welcome DMs from MAPs. It's a scary fucking time to be a parent.

I think the other element of the rebranding is the idea that you can be attracted to children without being an abuser. In other words, it's OK to be a MAP as long as you're not acting on it.

'Minor Attracted Person' sounds like "I think about it, but I don't actually do it", whereas 'paedophile' sounds like someone who sexually abuses children.

The majority of society will never have heard of hebephilia - I have a good vocabulary and had never come across that word until I investigated a PP's statement that paedophilia related to a specific age group. But everyone understands paedophilia to mean sexually abusing under-16s, children.

Is the difference between paedophilia and hebephilia really significant or relevant outside of academia, or perhaps psychiatry? Does it matter to society whether an adult wants the right to sexually assault a 6yo or a 12yo? Both are wrong.

I suppose there's a difference between the technical meaning of 'paedophile' by psychiatrists etc and how it is used generally.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Well, here is an alternative suggestion:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/may/23/letsstopusingthewordpaedo

I suppose it doesn't cover the 'nomap' group.

Perhaps when we see 'MAP' we should avoid the trap of being drawn into the precise technical definitions of paedophilia and ask for clarification - do they mean Child Rapist, other Child Sex Abusers, Child Sex Abuse Fetishist , and a second question - why are they trying to enable or normalise Child Sex Abuse?

What is NOMAP?

@JellySlice

What is NOMAP?

A Child Sex Abuse Fetishist who hasn't, and maybe never will physically abuse a child. However, if they're watching child porn they're not really 'non offending' which is what the NO stands for, I believe.